Official Wrestling Talk Thread

[elcheato]

Even when this motherfucker lost to Taker at mania, he had to have him carted off on a stretcher. 

 

and again, the difference is Triple H was never truly the face of the company, and he still buried tons of guys and avoided defeat. If you're gonna compare Cena to someone you might want to look at The Rock, Stone Cold, Bret Hart and Hogan, and I guarantee he lost clean more than them. 

 

[Pugz]

And HHH putting them over was a part of the plan and he did that

no it wasnt. when they started getting the idea for the shield they picked guys who they had high hopes for as single wrestlers. triple h putting them over when he did came from a storyline they didnt think of when they discovered the three talents they had.

 

[Pugz]

Even when this motherfucker lost to Taker at mania, he had to have him carted off on a stretcher. 
 
and again, the difference is Triple H was never truly the face of the company, and he still buried tons of guys and avoided defeat. If you're gonna compare Cena to someone you might want to look at The Rock, Stone Cold, Bret Hart and Hogan, and I guarantee he lost clean more than them. 

totally agree.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

And this was before the whole yes movement. It was huge for his career, DESPITE Triple H killing his momentum no less than 5 minutes after. 

I think you're either misremembering what happened or piling on HHH. Yes he interfered but he didn't "kill" him, that was all part of the storyline that helped build the Yes movement into what it was with the Bryan vs. authority angle. I know it's your opinion that Daniel should hold all belts at all times.

And even with that clean loss, Cena came on raw the next day with an elbow the size of a tennis ball using it as an excuse.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Even when this motherfucker lost to Taker at mania, he had to have him carted off on a stretcher. 
 
and again, the difference is Triple H was never truly the face of the company, and he still buried tons of guys and avoided defeat. If you're gonna compare Cena to someone you might want to look at The Rock, Stone Cold, Bret Hart and Hogan, and I guarantee he lost clean more than them. 

how was Hunter never the face of the company? Especially in the era of two competing brands, there doesn't have to just be one face.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

no it wasnt. when they started getting the idea for the shield they picked guys who they had high hopes for as single wrestlers. triple h putting them over when he did came from a storyline they didnt think of when they discovered the three talents they had.

Obviously they didn't plan the entire run of the shield from the start, but when you make a faction like that, with those expectations, and I'm sure it was at least discussed long before it happened. And maybe not evolution specifically.

Regardless, the shield went over evolution 2-0 in matches. Evolution is one of the greatest factions of all time and many people including myself thought that they would beat the shield at least one. But HHH did what was best for business and helped elevate them even further. Those wins gave all such momentum that once they broke up they were all immediately main event caliber. What wins did the shield have that were bigger than evolution?

 

[The Guid]

He's always in business for himself, most guys would be, but I think it's wrong to say all he does is bury guys. Every good face needs an even better heel to go up against. Few did/do that better than HHH. When the time comes for it, he usually does the job and puts the face over.

 

[buzzy]

I don't like this Orton that acts like a normal dude

 

[elcheato]

I think you're either misremembering what happened or piling on HHH. Yes he interfered but he didn't "kill" him, that was all part of the storyline that helped build the Yes movement into what it was with the Bryan vs. authority angle. I know it's your opinion that Daniel should hold all belts at all times.

And even with that clean loss, Cena came on raw the next day with an elbow the size of a tennis ball using it as an excuse.

The "yes movement" was not a purposely created WWE storyline. It has been well established that CM Punk was supposed to face HHH at Mania, and it was Punk who was going to be screwed by the Authority constantly, with Bryan in a meaningless match with Sheamus. It happened on accident, and the only reason they acted on it was because they were rolling out the network. The only purpose of that summer slam cash in was to get Trips and Orton heat. Thanks for telling me my opinion though, has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

 

Regardless, as mentioned this is more so about what he did as a full time wrestler after the attitude era. 

 

[elcheato]

how was Hunter never the face of the company? Especially in the era of two competing brands, there doesn't have to just be one face.

Uh, because he wasn't. Him and the WWE will certainly try to sell that though. He was essentially what Randy Orton is to the current era, except he had infinitely more power within the company. Not the top guy but tons of world title reigns, spends at least 50% of his time as a heel because he's better at it.

 

[Big Bid'Ness]

My favorite podcaster talked about this 2 years ago

 

[elcheato]

I'm still upset about how Kane never won the title when he first lost his mask. Everyone loves to talk about how Kane died the moment he took his mask off, but his best work was the initial period without his mask. He was legitimately a fucking terrifying monster. But, this happened during Triple H's reign of terror so he never got the belt, and if my memory serves me correct, never got a singles match for it, just that triple threat with Goldberg and HHH. 

 

He was AWARDED the World title after Lesnar took the Undisputed Championship to Smackdown. Shawn Michaels ended that reign, only to drop the title back in less than a month.

 

Goldberg ended Triple H's near calender year title reign, only for Trips to win it back in less than 3 months. He was the only guy to beat/pin Goldberg in the WWE (only the 5th guy in Wrestling history), and he did it twice. 

 

After Randy Orton ended Chris Benoit's half a year world title reign to become the youngest championship in WWE history (by beating him completely clean, as a heel, in the most hated faction nonetheless), Triple H beat him down for a month straight and then won the title at the PPV, ending his reign under 30 days. To this day I still don't understand it. I'm not a huge Orton fan by any means, but Triple H has dominated him in their career "rivalry". 

 

Triple H then vacated the title after a contraversial ending in a triple threat match, but won it back at the elimination chamber

 

Those are just thing that happened in the title picture. What he did to Booker T was awful. He did a number on RVD & Jericho, he squashed The Hurricane the week after he upset The Rock, sent Umaga down to the mid card, buried Paul London and Brian Kendrick for no apparent reason, destroyed Scott Steiner  

 

When he was drafted to Smackdown for the first time, they had him refuse to go, and him and even Bischoff made it seem like the Raw brand would die if he left, so they traded Booker T & the Dudley Boyz to get him back there. Now, kayfabe, I think anyone makes that trade, but at the same time, it was basically just a way to try to portray Triple H as something even bigger than he was.

 

Now, after saying that, he has put people over, specifically Batista, he did a lot for him. But, there are just too many instances of his bull shit. I hate Jeff Hardy, but Triple H put him over too, and it helped him get to the main event, although he was already getting huge reactions and selling tons of merchandise anyway. Was surprised when he tapped out to Benoit at Mania as well, but even the focus there was still just on Triple H/Shawn Michaels. 

 

[Big Bid'Ness]

Kalisto and El tortito have the highest winning percentage in the WWE right now. Neville is 3rd.

 

[Teagz]

He's always in business for himself, most guys would be, but I think it's wrong to say all he does is bury guys. Every good face needs an even better heel to go up against. Few did/do that better than HHH. When the time comes for it, he usually does the job and puts the face over.

Cornette calls him "Not the top guy, but the guy who works with the top guy."

 

[Big Bid'Ness]

 

 

 
 
BWhahahah trio of the year

 

[CameronCrazy06]

I'm still upset about how Kane never won the title when he first lost his mask. Everyone loves to talk about how Kane died the moment he took his mask off, but his best work was the initial period without his mask. He was legitimately a fucking terrifying monster. But, this happened during Triple H's reign of terror so he never got the belt, and if my memory serves me correct, never got a singles match for it, just that triple threat with Goldberg and HHH. 
 
He was AWARDED the World title after Lesnar took the Undisputed Championship to Smackdown. Shawn Michaels ended that reign, only to drop the title back in less than a month.
 
Goldberg ended Triple H's near calender year title reign, only for Trips to win it back in less than 3 months. He was the only guy to beat/pin Goldberg in the WWE (only the 5th guy in Wrestling history), and he did it twice. 
 
After Randy Orton ended Chris Benoit's half a year world title reign to become the youngest championship in WWE history (by beating him completely clean, as a heel, in the most hated faction nonetheless), Triple H beat him down for a month straight and then won the title at the PPV, ending his reign under 30 days. To this day I still don't understand it. I'm not a huge Orton fan by any means, but Triple H has dominated him in their career "rivalry". 
 
Triple H then vacated the title after a contraversial ending in a triple threat match, but won it back at the elimination chamber
 
Those are just thing that happened in the title picture. What he did to Booker T was awful. He did a number on RVD & Jericho, he squashed The Hurricane the week after he upset The Rock, sent Umaga down to the mid card, buried Paul London and Brian Kendrick for no apparent reason, destroyed Scott Steiner  
 
When he was drafted to Smackdown for the first time, they had him refuse to go, and him and even Bischoff made it seem like the Raw brand would die if he left, so they traded Booker T & the Dudley Boyz to get him back there. Now, kayfabe, I think anyone makes that trade, but at the same time, it was basically just a way to try to portray Triple H as something even bigger than he was.
 
Now, after saying that, he has put people over, specifically Batista, he did a lot for him. But, there are just too many instances of his bull shit. I hate Jeff Hardy, but Triple H put him over too, and it helped him get to the main event, although he was already getting huge reactions and selling tons of merchandise anyway. Was surprised when he tapped out to Benoit at Mania as well, but even the focus there was still just on Triple H/Shawn Michaels. 

Yes I read the whole post and agreed with some of it. I'm at work, but some quick bullet points:

- what HHH did to Umaga is no different than what Cena is doing to Rusev now. Foreign guy who dominates everyone, runs into a brick wall. Umaga at least stayed somewhat credible after. I doubt Rusev does but we will see.
- Didn't Cena go over Lesnar in his return match?
- Cena getting a rematch with the rock and going over was fucking stupid
- Cena going over nexus was stupid

Like I said I'm at work so poor post quality but you get the point

 

[Pugz]

that was a great post, dan

 

[Big Bid'Ness]

Yes I read the whole post and agreed with some of it. I'm at work, but some quick bullet points:

- what HHH did to Umaga is no different than what Cena is doing to Rusev now. Foreign guy who dominates everyone, runs into a brick wall. Umaga at least stayed somewhat credible after. I doubt Rusev does but we will see.
- Didn't Cena go over Lesnar in his return match?
- Cena getting a rematch with the rock and going over was fucking stupid
- Cena going over nexus was stupid

Like I said I'm at work so poor post quality but you get the point

 
Rock - Cena 2 was the passing the torch like Hogan did to the Rock.

 

[elcheato]

Yes I read the whole post and agreed with some of it. I'm at work, but some quick bullet points:

- what HHH did to Umaga is no different than what Cena is doing to Rusev now. Foreign guy who dominates everyone, runs into a brick wall. Umaga at least stayed somewhat credible after. I doubt Rusev does but we will see.
- Didn't Cena go over Lesnar in his return match?
- Cena getting a rematch with the rock and going over was fucking stupid
- Cena going over nexus was stupid

Like I said I'm at work so poor post quality but you get the point

The difference is, Umaga had his win streak snapped (ironically by John Cena), but he was still over. And Umaga wasn't a foreigner gimmick, he didn't kayfabe hate America. He was billed as the Samoan Bulldozer, and his family heritage is from American Samoa lol. Regardless, Triple H went over him at three straight PPVs, and his career was never the same. Also, if you didn't notice, Lana became more over than Rusev in the lead up to Mania, and at that point he hadn't even lost to Cena yet. You could see the writing on the wall, Rusev couldn't last much longer with his gimmick.

 

Cena went over Lesnar, yes, which was a mistake but as mentioned, no face of a company has ever been squashed like he was at Summerslam. Not to mention Triple H went over Lesnar at fuckin' Wrestlemania, but this isn't about current day Triple H anyway

 

If you ask me Cena should have gone over in the first match up and it should have ended there. Don't get the logic of having a guy come back for one match to beat your top guy. But apparently they had the rematch set up, so it makes sense, and I'm fine with it. 

 

The Nexus was going no where fast. The group was just Barrett and a bunch of jobbers (Bray Wyatt was never going to be successful as Husky Harris, and Skip Sheffield got hurt early on and was taken off TV). I assume they soured on the group when Skip Sheffield got hurt, considering him, Bryan, and Barrett were the three feature guys originally, but Bryan got fired for the tie thing, and Sheffield got hurt. I think they made a mistake not putting the strap on Barrett early on, but alas. Someone had to get rid of them.

 

I'm not saying Cena does't win a lot, he does, but your complaints didn't make any sense when you brought up me talking about Triple H, because the situation is so much different. The top face rarely gets beaten, especially clean, and Cena has done it more than any other superstar who at one point was the face of the company. Triple H's position was of someone who should be using his star power to put people over and build other stars, not do the opposite almost all the time. 

 

[CameronCrazy06]

First of all, it's NOT ironic that it was by John Cena haha. Anyways, my comparison of Rusev/Umaga was simply foreigner + undefeated streak. No need to over-complicate things. And Cena is about to go over Rusev at THREE straight pay-per-views. 
 
Yes, Cena was squashed by Lesnar at Summerslam. But they also gave him a title run for literally NO reason before that squashing, so I'd say it evened out. 
 
You have yet to even acknowledge the fact that Cena is garbage in the ring. I'm not saying you disagree with that, but there's no reason for Cena to be booked like he is, ESPECIALLY given how bad he is in ring. At least HHH could hold his own.