2012 NFL Gameday Discussion

[.infamous]

Williams, in effect, told NFL investigators everything. Every detail of the bounty system. Every nugget. Every fact. And in one extraordinary quote, a quote that typified what was an extraordinary day Monday, a day of fact revealing by the NFL and fact denying by the union, the NFL said Williams made a damning statement.

Williams told the investigators that by utilizing a pay-to-injure scheme he was mistakenly "rolling the dice with player safety and someone could have been maimed."

 

[jonathanlambert33]

dude, you are just sounding worse and worse. your team broke the rules, they got dealt with.

That's fine. How I sound really isn't a concern of mine.

We obviously all have differing opinions (well, I have a differing opinion), but if any of yall were in this position with your team you'd be mirroring what I'm saying.

I'm sorry, but Roger Goodell's word that the Saints had a bounty program isn't good enough for me. Especially when all the evidence that he has shown doesn't prove that any money ever changed hand for injuring a player and his two main sources have retracted their statements.

 

[Elite]

What infamous just posted is pretty damning

 

[.infamous]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19378838/nfl-reveals-more-bounty-evidence-courtesy-of-the-saints-williams

full article.

some interesting tid bits:

What became clear was that Williams walked the league through how his bounty program worked in far greater detail than generally known. He was the main conduit but by far not the only one. The NFL clearly has far more sources and is protecting those sources.

Also, in many ways, the stupidity of the Saints hurt their own cause. The league was able to retrieve -- unbelievably -- large chunks of information from the Saints' own computer system, according to the NFL. They got cooperation from Saints owner Tom Benson to access the team's files and were able to gather charts and other information that, while not a smoking gun, contributed to the appearance of Saints' guilt.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Someone PLEASE answer this question. If the NFL has no actual evidence of money changing hands (any evidence not turned over to the NFLPA by last Friday is now voided and irrelevant, by league rule), then how do you penalize the Saints players? The only thing they can be penalized for is awarding players money for the below mentioned league rules, but can anyone actually admit that that is bad enough to warrant two year long suspensions?



But once again:

1) Gregg Williams and Michael Curello have both retracted their statements made to the NFL. Effectively going from saying "there was a bounty system" to "there was not a bounty system." Anything he admitted to, whether true or not, is now void and can no longer be used as evidence (it also essentially means Williams is done in the NFL).

2) That article does nothing more than put the documents that are free for anyone with internet access to read into words. As I've already said, try to find evidence in those documents that money changed hands. Those documents state that money was put up in pools and such (as the article states), that money was awarded for big plays like defensive TD's, sacks, interceptions, fumbles, etc and that players were "fined" for mistakes they made on the field. But no where is there evidence that money actually changed hands.

Which puts us right back where we started. We've known since a few days since this started the story of Gregg Williams and Jonathan Vilma put up money to injure Brett Favre, but none of the money was actually handed out. If the money wasn't handed out, the NFL has no ground to penalize the Saints.

 

[Pugz]

guiz this never happened. stop posting that stuff. saints for super bowl.

 

[TTN2810]

Someone PLEASE answer this question. If the NFL has no actual evidence of money changing hands (any evidence not turned over to the NFLPA by last Friday is now voided and irrelevant, by league rule), then how do you penalize the Saints players? The only thing they can be penalized for is awarding players money for the below mentioned league rules, but can anyone actually admit that that is bad enough to warrant two year long suspensions?



But once again:

1) Gregg Williams and Michael Curello have both retracted their statements made to the NFL. Effectively going from saying "there was a bounty system" to "there was not a bounty system." Anything he admitted to, whether true or not, is now void and can no longer be used as evidence (it also essentially means Williams is done in the NFL).

2) That article does nothing more than put the documents that are free for anyone with internet access to read into words. As I've already said, try to find evidence in those documents that money changed hands. Those documents state that money was put up in pools and such (as the article states), that money was awarded for big plays like defensive TD's, sacks, interceptions, fumbles, etc and that players were "fined" for mistakes they made on the field. But no where is there evidence that money actually changed hands.

Which puts us right back where we started. We've known since a few days since this started the story of Gregg Williams and Jonathan Vilma put up money to injure Brett Favre, but none of the money was actually handed out. If the money wasn't handed out, the NFL has no ground to penalize the Saints.

DUDE, the thing Infamous posted was FROM TODAY. He may have retracted the statement before, but he said TODAY there was one, and admitted it.

 

[TTN2810]

The NFL has provided an audio/video clip -- it's not exactly crystal clear -- of former New Orleans Saints DL Anthony Hargrove in the NFC Championship Game following the 2009 season where he seems to demand payment for knocking Minnesota Vikings QB Brett Favre out of the game.​

"Hey, Bobby, give me the money," Hargrove, who later received a $5,000 fine for an illegal hit on Favre, says to former teammate Bobby McCray after the quarterback limped from the field.​

If you watch the video, Hargrove is blocked by Ayodele leaning in, and it kinda looks like it may be Ayodele who said it, but it's really tough to tell who said it, but someone did say "give me the money".

 

[jonathanlambert33]

DUDE, the thing Infamous posted was FROM TODAY. He may have retracted the statement before, but he said TODAY there was one, and admitted it.

You misinterpreted that article. Gregg Williams retracted the statement that article is talking about, Gregg Williams did not meet with anyone yesterday. Even if he did, it would be irrelevant, like I've stated many times, anything the NFL did not hand over to the NFLPA last Friday can not be used in this process. The CBA requires the NFL to produce three days in advance any evidence the NFL will be using at the hearing. If there is indeed “explosive, compelling” evidence, it apparently wasn’t among the information the league tendered to the NFLPA on Friday. And so that evidence can’t be used by the NFL. According to Schefter, he was told what the NFLPA released yesterday was the only evidence the NFL has to offer on the players.

But whatever, I'm not arguing about it anymore. It's clear nobody cares enough (by some peoples own admission) to actually look at the evidence the NFLPA released. As soon as yall read the ESPN headline "NFL: Saints defense had 'bounty' fund" on March 2, 2012 yalls minds were made up, that was enough to convince yall that the Saints had a bounty program, because yall don't care to look into it any further.

Anyone who actually takes the time to go through those 200 pages of documents would see that while there are certainly a few interesting documents (the majority of what the NFL handed over was worthless, like the slide about keeping the meeting rooms clean) in there. But nothing concrete enough that should make you 100% believe the Saints had a bounty program, and surely nothing concrete enough to serve as the evidence and reasoning behind suspensions. It's all interpretation. Did the Saints partake in illegal activities? Hell yes, the evidence proves it by showing payments to Saints players for things like "pick six." But that's not a bounty or pay for injure program, that's a pay for performance program. Which yes, is still illegal, but should not amount to anything more than a slap on the wrist from the NFL.

 

[Elite]

Nobody gives a shit about retracted statements. If you said something, you can't just say I didn't mean what I said and it all goes away.

And lol at you saying that we shouldn't have an opinion on this because we didn't look through the 200 pages of evidence when you and I both know you didn't either.

 

[Pugz]

no, i believe nola did..

HE IS THAT DEDICATED TO GETTING OUT THE TRUTH!

 

[jonathanlambert33]

no, i believe nola did..

HE IS THAT DEDICATED TO GETTING OUT THE TRUTH!

It has nothing to do with being dedicated, it has everything to do with having way too much free time lol

 

[Elite]

I don't care how much free time, you didn't read 200 pages

 

[Pugz]

its clearly homerism at its finest.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I don't care how much free time, you didn't read 200 pages

It's 200 slides, not 200 pages.

Doesn't take that much time to read, especially when you're interested.

 

[Elite]

Anyone who actually takes the time to go through those 200 pages of documents

...

 

[jonathanlambert33]

its clearly homerism at its finest.

It doesn't have anything to do with homerism, it has everything to do with people like you being to fucking ignorant to actually look at the lack of evidence that a bounty program existed before talking out of your ass. It's really not a hard concept to grasp. I totally understand not wanting to look through those slides, but don't comment on the matter if you don't really understand what you are talking about.

Like I've said a million times, if you spent less time talking out of your ass and actually took the time to look over a few slides you would see that the NFL has failed to produce any actual evidence that proves Saints defensive players were getting paid to injure opponents. The evidence just is not there. All it would take for anyone to understand that would be to sit down, relax, and look at pictures on your computer screen. But instead people like you would prefer to argue about something they haven't put any research into and have no factual evidence to support your claims that the Saints did infact have a bounty program.

 

[Pugz]

im not being ignorant. you clearly are. you keep posting all the shit no one cares to read because its obvious we all believe they broke the rules and believe they should have been dealt with, and they have.

they found the fucking proof in computers from the sinners. the aliens probably planted that though.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

im not being ignorant. you clearly are. you keep posting all the shit no one cares to read because its obvious we all believe they broke the rules and believe they should have been dealt with, and they have.

they found the fucking proof in computers from the sinners. the aliens probably planted that though.

Again, no fucking clue what you are talking about. Why do you insist on talking out of your ass? Are you that fucking dumb and lazy? The NFL PROVIDED the NFLPA with the evidence they can use and the NFLPA made it AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO DOWNLOAD.

I'll even make it really easy for you to look at and link it, even though I doubt you'll continue to bitch about what I'm saying rather than looking at the facts. 16 exhibits, 200 slides, right at your fingertips that PROVE that Saints defenders never received improper benefits for injuring other players. I mean shit, how do I make it more easy and obvious?

https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/League%20Exhibits%201-12.pdf

https://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/files/League%20Exhibits%2013-16.pdf

Is it really that hard to grasp the fact that it is against the rules of the CBA to use any evidence the league has on the Saints that was not in the 200 slides of documents the NFL gave the NFLPA? I'll say it again, it is against the rules of the CBA to use any evidence not present in the 200 slides the NFL handed to the NFLPA.

The "fucking proof" they found in those computers is PROBABLY in those slides that you just refuse to read but want to continue to comment on, and if it's not, it is now: IRRELEVANT AND VOIDED.

One last time:

If there is any evidence that proves that Saints defensive players were being awarded "bounty" money for taking out opponents players it is, by LEAGUE AND CBA RULE, officially irrelevant if it was not shown three days in advance.

and if you don't believe me, here it is:

When it seems that the bounty case can get no weirder, it somehow does.

After Commissioner Roger Goodell presided over the start-and-stop-and-start-again bounty hearings, the NFL invited a dozen reporters to the league office on Monday. (I couldn’t have made it on short notice, but an invitation would have been nice.) The league shared with them more information about the bounty case. As Gantt pointed out earlier in the hour, Peter King of Sports Illustrated called the league’s case “explosive, compelling.”

And here’s perhaps the most important point. If any of the evidence shown today to an Apostle-sized collection of scribes wasn’t given to the NFLPA and the four suspended players on Friday, Peter needs to add another word to his description.

“Irrelevant.”

The CBA requires the NFL to produce three days in advance any evidence the NFL will be using at the hearing. If there is indeed “explosive, compelling” evidence, it apparently wasn’t among the information the league tendered to the NFLPA on Friday. And so that evidence can’t be used by the NFL at the appeal hearing.

So either the NFL did a fantastic job of propping up items such as Sean Pamphilon’s ridiculously rambling 10,000-plus-word manifesto during the dog-and-pony show, or the NFL showed the reporters evidence that the NFL failed to give to the suspended players and their union.

If the latter is the truth, there’s something very wrong with this picture.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/18/explosive-compelling-evidence-is-also-irrelevant-if-not-given-to-nflpa-on-friday/

 

[Pugz]

The "fucking proof" they found in those computers is PROBABLY in those slides that you just refuse to read