2012 NFL Gameday Discussion

[jonathanlambert33]

Let me show you how much I care that I misspelled something.

 

[Pugz]

according to you, simply by replying was showing me enough.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

NFLPA findings on bounty investigation:

For Immediate Release
June 18, 2012
NFLPA’S OUTSIDE COUNSEL’S FINDINGS ON 'BOUNTY INVESTIGATION'

The Commissioner in this proceeding—and in any disciplinary proceeding—has the obligation to act impartially in the disciplining of players. As the representative of the game of football, this duty of the Commissioner is as compelling as his obligation to protect the game of football. His interest should not be in rubber-stamping any pronouncement of punishment, but rather ensuring that justice is done.

As a servant of the game, the Commissioner’s threefold aim should be to protect the men who play the game, administer discipline in a fair and even manner and protect the image of the game. While he may strike hard blows, he is not at liberty to strike foul ones. The unfair discipline of players for their alleged involvement in a pay-to-injure/bounty program violated the Commissioner’s duty to refrain from resorting to improper methods to defend an unsubstantiated pronouncement.

After four months, the following facts have now been established. The Commissioner, NFL personnel and their outside counsel:

-Ran a sloppy investigation that inexplicably included a decision to not question any of the coaches about the documentary evidence used as a basis for punishment.

-Punished players before they had the ability to confront, challenge or explain a single piece of evidence used against them.

-Launched a public campaign in the media to support the discipline and tarnish the reputations of players before any hearing, effectively destroying any claim that the Commissioner could act as an impartial arbitrator.

-Withheld any and all evidence from the players for nearly four months despite repeated requests for full information and full transparency.

-Falsely characterized witness interviews to draw false conclusions about players’ involvement in a pay-to-injure scheme.

-Retained a former U.S. Attorney to whitewash the investigation by employing her to conduct a media conference call affirming an investigation she was not part of.

-Employed the same former U.S. Attorney to today’s hearing to read the report of an investigation she did not conduct, but prohibited her from answering any questions from the players.

-Refused to make any coaches involved in preparing the supposed documentary evidence available for interviews by the players or at today’s hearing.

-Provided only 200 pages out of their claimed 18,000 pages of materials and refused to provide any materials that might be exculpatory.

-Without explanation, produced at today’s hearing a declaration from a team advisor who said that no bounty program existed.

-Inexplicably relied upon an article and a blog post written after the investigation had concluded and punishment had been issued as ‘evidence’ even though they had supposedly collected thousands of documents proving players participated in a pay-to-injure scheme.

-Refused a three-day adjournment and delay of the appeals hearing so that the players could perform a more comprehensive review of the documents.

In this matter, the conduct of the Commissioner and his representatives has undermined the fundamental process contemplated by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Through this abuse, these players have been denied any semblance of due process and fairness.

At a time when some question the safety and integrity of the game, the failure by those charged to act responsibly and fairly have challenged our collective faith and confidence in the league.

-- Richard Smith, NFLPA Outside Counsel

Nothing more than a smear investigation/witch hunt.

Saints aren't innocent victims, they broke the rules by having a pay for performance program and cheating the cap. But there is no evidence of a "bounty" program. We aren't innocent victims, but the punishments are way too harsh.

 

[.infamous]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

NFL took 12 reporters into league office to present over one hour as to why Saints were suspended. Evidence compelling - and on SportsCenter

mike freeman @realfreemancbs

Just got out of nfl meeting. Hoop daddy. Stand by.

Sounds like they showed off some evidence.

 

[.infamous]

Peter King @SI_PeterKing

The NFL's charges are explosive, compelling. Twelve reporters just heard the league's evidence.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I heard Schefter was in a meeting earlier, that musta been weird lol

 

[.infamous]

mike freeman @realfreemancbs

Gregg Wiliams was clearly the biggest source for NFL but no question league has many other sources.

mike freeman @realfreemancbs

Owner Benson was cooperative with the league granting investigators access to Saints computer system.

mike freeman @realfreemancbs

Dumbass Saints kept bounty info on computer system.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

None of that is nothing new. Them getting info from the computers was one of the first things to come out.

 

[.infamous]

So, there is bounty info on the computer and you are saying they didn't have any bounty program...

:lol:

 

[jonathanlambert33]

So, there is bounty info on the computer and you are saying they didn't have any bounty program...

:lol:

Emails from Mike Ornstein that may or may not be jokes? I posted that text message earlier.

The reporters like Freeman were shown the same evidence the players were shown earlier in the day, the ones that the NFLPA has up on their site for download.

 

[.infamous]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

NFL showed slides from Saints computers on 1/7/11,saying: "Now's the time to do our jobs, collect bounty $. No apologies. Let's go hunting."

 

[elcheato]

Nothing more than a witch hunt!

 

[jonathanlambert33]

.infamous

It certainly paints a certain picture and it doesn't look good. Was this stuff literal? Who knows, but there is no way to prove that it was just "motivational tactics" or not like Gregg Williams has said. There's a lot of silly slides like that in those slides. Like I've said from the start though, I just want to see actual evidence of this and then I'll move on. Until you see actual evidence though, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[TTN2810]

Was Casey Anthony innocent? OJ Simpson?
Innocent until proven guilty isn't always correct.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Was Casey Anthony innocent? OJ Simpson?
Innocent until proven guilty isn't always correct.

Well nowadays it seems like it's more about guilty until proven innocent.

But that's a whole other discussion.

 

[.infamous]

Collect bounty$$$$ that sounds like motivation. A picture of a sniper aiming at the head and then dog the bounty hunter. Just give it up. You guys did it and you aren't going to win this.

 

[elcheato]

If Sean Payton wore a T-Shirt saying "I had a bounty program while coaching the Saints", you still wouldn't believe it.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Collect bounty$$$$ that sounds like motivation. A picture of a sniper aiming at the head and then dog the bounty hunter. Just give it up. You guys did it and you aren't going to win this.

Does this prove anything (other than GW is a strange dude)? Can you tell from that that there was a bounty program intended to injure players and that the players collected on that? Seems to many are ok with circumstantial evidence and no explanation. Say what yall want, but I'm not about to take someones word for it like so many of yall seem to want too.

All of this stuff coming from the slides about hurting people and knocking them out of the game, but they can't show that the Saints hurt players.

Punish them for the p4p system, and for being stupid enough to save the information on the team's computers, but it shouldn't be as bad as a season-long suspension nor games at all. Fine them money and let them play.

And who says we aren't going to win this? When Goodell has to go to court for this, the "evidence" that he has will be just what it is, meaningless and useless. Any evidence that was not shown today is now useless and irrelevant. If you looked at the evidence today, it shows outgoing payments to guys like Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer, Tracy Porter, etc. But for interceptions and such, nothing "bounty" related. That in itself is illegal, but no where near bad enough to face the type of punishment the Saints have faced.

It's time to face the facts that this was the best Goodell has to offer and it doesn't prove anything. I'd welcome anyone on this board to go through the documents Goodell used as his evidence today and show me where Saints players were PAID for a pay for injury program. If anyone can do that, I'll stay shut on the matter for the rest of time.

Pay for performance? Now that's a different story.



EDIT: The fact that Gregg Williams and that other guy (supposedly the NFL's two biggest sources) have retracted their statements regarding their being a bounty in NOLA? Now the NFL doesn't have evidence or hearsay.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

If Sean Payton wore a T-Shirt saying "I had a bounty program while coaching the Saints", you still wouldn't believe it.

Like I've said a million times, I know the Saints did something against league rules.

But nothing bad enough to warrant the type of punishment that we have received.

 

[Pugz]

dude, you are just sounding worse and worse. your team broke the rules, they got dealt with.