2011 NBA Offseason Discussion Thread

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CameronCrazy06

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Not true. David West shot 45.8% on jumpers this year, Chris Bosh only 43.5%. You're overrating Chris Bosh lol. All he does his shoot mid-range jumpers, something David West is better than him at, and he gets the occasional tip-in - that's it. Overrated player.
Don't think cheato saw this so I'll re-post :)

And Jack is a better pure PG. At this stage in both of their careers, Jack is better. However Chalmers still has potential to get better.
 

elcheato

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Chris Bosh is taller, more athletic and a lot better defensively then David West.. You could argue that West may be at his level offensively, even though he's not.. Bosh put up way better numbers then West when he wasn't on great teams.

You're reaching to try and bring down the Heat.. West is not better then Bosh.
 

CameronCrazy06

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Chris Bosh is taller, more athletic and a lot better defensively then David West.. You could argue that West may be at his level offensively, even though he's not.. Bosh put up way better numbers then West when he wasn't on great teams.

You're reaching to try and bring down the Heat.. West is not better then Bosh.
My point is that they're very similar players, you act like there is a night-and-day difference between the two. It's virtually a coin-flip.
 

bestkeptsecret13

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Chris Bosh owns David West all day.

I think we're forgetting how good Bosh was with the Raptors...

Bosh was good for 22+ & 9+ on 50% shooting for a five year stretch in Toronto.

David West wishes he could have one season that good.

I would also argue that West, who will be 31 next season, is no longer in the prime of his career.
 

CameronCrazy06

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Chris Bosh owns David West all day.

I think we're forgetting how good Bosh was with the Raptors...

Bosh was good for 22+ & 9+ on 50% shooting for a five year stretch in Toronto.

David West wishes he could have one season that good.

I would also argue that West, who will be 31 next season, is no longer in the prime of his career.
Lol you do realize that David West had multiple years of averaging 21 and 9, right? Those numbers Chris Bosh put up in Toronto are a thing of the past, do you realize how little of a supporting cast he had around him? Andrea Bargnani's numbers this year completely de-valued what Bosh did in Toronto.
 

bestkeptsecret13

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Lol you do realize that David West had multiple years of averaging 21 and 9, right? Those numbers Chris Bosh put up in Toronto are a thing of the past, do you realize how little of a supporting cast he had around him? Andrea Bargnani's numbers this year completely de-valued what Bosh did in Toronto.
Multiple years? Yes, he had two seasons of 21 & 9. Bosh is a much better rebounder than West. Sure Bosh didn't have much of a supporting cast in Toronto, but one could argue that makes his numbers look even better, considering the double/triple teams he probably faced. You say his numbers are a thing of the past, but if he wasn't playing with both LeBron and Wade, he would definitley still be putting up 20 & 10 like he was in Toronto. I doubt David West is able to do what Bosh did in Toronto. He's just not as talented a player.
 

CameronCrazy06

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Multiple years? Yes, he had two seasons of 21 & 9. Bosh is a much better rebounder than West. Sure Bosh didn't have much of a supporting cast in Toronto, but one could argue that makes his numbers look even better, considering the double/triple teams he probably faced. You say his numbers are a thing of the past, but if he wasn't playing with both LeBron and Wade, he would definitley still be putting up 20 & 10 like he was in Toronto. I doubt David West is able to do what Bosh did in Toronto. He's just not as talented a player.
They're very similar offensively. Bosh in Miami hardly did anything but shot mid-range jumpers, and that is West's game as well. West is a better shooter than Bosh for sure, and seeing as that is most of both their offensive game, a better offensive player. Bosh is a better rebounder but not by as much as you claim it is (Bosh had no one to compete with for rebounds in Toronto, we all know how bad a rebounder Bargnani is). Defensively it's pretty even as well, both are average defenders.
 

jonathanlambert33

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You're using the last two months of a season as a barometer? lol. Chalmers brings more to the table then Jack overall.

Chalmers put up 12 points a game in the finals so he is just as good....
So it'd be fair if I included the time that Jack was learning a system he's never played before? Great argument... :rotfl:

And no, Chalmers doesn't bring more to the table. Jarrett Jack is a point guard that can get you into your offense, Jack is a guy who can get his own shot, but can also get others involved. Chalmers is a shoot first point guard who doesn't do a good job of getting others involved. Chalmers is MUCH more prone to turnovers than Jack is, (Jack played 100 more minutes than Chalmers after the Allstar break, but had 8 less turnovers). Chalmers is not a good defender, Jack is a good defender and defends two positions for the Hornets. Jack has a higher p/40, r/40, a/40, and a lower turnover rate as already mentioned. Jack has a higher per and a higher eff rating.

As for Chalmers putting up 12 points per in the finals, he did that shooting less than 43% and isn't playing behind the best point guard in the world.
 

jonathanlambert33

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Chris Bosh owns David West all day.

I think we're forgetting how good Bosh was with the Raptors...

Bosh was good for 22+ & 9+ on 50% shooting for a five year stretch in Toronto.

David West wishes he could have one season that good.

I would also argue that West, who will be 31 next season, is no longer in the prime of his career.
Bosh was also the only option in Toronto.

I think Bosh is better, but I don't think the margin is huge like you all are arguing.

David West had two seasons (like CC said) of 21 and 9, so no he doesn't wish. He's already done it. Unlike Bosh, West actually had to play on a team with other good players. He had to share the scoring loads and the rebounding loads with guys like Chris Paul, Marcus Thornton, Peja Stojakovic, guys off the bench, then rebouding with Emeka Okafor and Tyson Chandler. What would have David averaged in Toronto, being the only option for points and boards?
 

elcheato

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So it'd be fair if I included the time that Jack was learning a system he's never played before? Great argument... :rotfl:

And no, Chalmers doesn't bring more to the table. Jarrett Jack is a point guard that can get you into your offense, Jack is a guy who can get his own shot, but can also get others involved. Chalmers is a shoot first point guard who doesn't do a good job of getting others involved. Chalmers is MUCH more prone to turnovers than Jack is, (Jack played 100 more minutes than Chalmers after the Allstar break, but had 8 less turnovers). Chalmers is not a good defender, Jack is a good defender and defends two positions for the Hornets. Jack has a higher p/40, r/40, a/40, and a lower turnover rate as already mentioned. Jack has a higher per and a higher eff rating.

As for Chalmers putting up 12 points per in the finals, he did that shooting less than 43% and isn't playing behind the best point guard in the world.
Like I have already said, getting other players involved means almost nothing for a PG on the Miami Heat.. Every offensive set will either start with LeBron or Wade, and they will either find the open man when they drive, or they'll finish themselves. Play making PGs don't matter in Miami since they pretty much already have two. Chalmers also had his worst year as a pro up to this point in his career, and I would argue that he won't repeat this season because he definitley will be the starter next year after the Heat did all they good to put him on the bench even though he's their best PG listed at that position by far.

And I don't care if Jack plays behind Paul... Jack only played 2 less minutes a game. Jack shot 41% from the field, 30% from 3. Chalmers shot 40% from the field, 36% from 3..
 

bestkeptsecret13

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Let's not act like Bosh didn't play with any offensive threats...

Andrea Bargnani
Hedo Turkoglu
Shawn Marion
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike James
Morris Peterson
Charlie Villanueva
Jalen Rose
Vince Carter
Donyell Marshall

Also, when I said West wishes he could put up seasons as good as Bosh, what I meant was West has two career years of 21 & 9. Bosh had a five year run where he put up numbers better than West's career bests.
 

jonathanlambert33

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Like I have already said, getting other players involved means almost nothing for a PG on the Miami Heat.. Every offensive set will either start with LeBron or Wade, and they will either find the open man when they drive, or they'll finish themselves. Play making PGs don't matter in Miami since they pretty much already have two. Chalmers also had his worst year as a pro up to this point in his career, and I would argue that he won't repeat this season because he definitley will be the starter next year after the Heat did all they good to put him on the bench even though he's their best PG listed at that position by far.

And I don't care if Jack plays behind Paul... Jack only played 2 less minutes a game. Jack shot 41% from the field, 30% from 3. Chalmers shot 40% from the field, 36% from 3..
Lol so your arguing that Chalmers is a better point guard because he plays in Miami and doesn't have to actually be a point guard? :rolleyes:

Jack is better in every category, aside from three point shooting.
 

elcheato

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I'm arguing that play making ability is irrelevant as a PG on the Miami Heat.. because it is.
 

RipCity32

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Is CC now trying to say West>Bosh?
Lmaoooooooooooooo.
 

CameronCrazy06

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Bosh would look even nicer if he played with Chris Paul lol.
And West would look great playing in Toronto where he has to do everything, or in Miami where he gets open mid-range jumpers on a consistent basis.
 

RipCity32

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West is no where near as good as creating his own shot as Bosh. He would of looked a lot worse in Toronto.
 

Pugz

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bosh isnt the "star" player everyone wants him to sound like. yes, hes good. yes, hes an allstar. no, hes not great..
 
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