NBA rumors and hearsay

[cavsfan817]

I just find it kinda funny that you call a trade offer shit that includes an All-Defensive 1st teamer, two future Top 5 picks (or at least one of them, but most likely both), a young defensive wing that shut down a red hot Paul Millsap, and the third overall pick in this past draft. Please tell me a better offer than that for a team that Westbrook will voluntarily go to.

Also we were never going to take Dunn because it would leave us too positionally cramped as I said. Sure Dunn will be very good, but he isn't better than Isaiah, and doesn't provide an immediate impact to start over Bradley either. So then he's on the bench -- and while yeah he is better than Smart and Rozier it does not mean it's worth taking him -- because we have Smart and Rozier. Smart's an elite defender at age 22, and Rozier according to SynergySports was the best and most efficient scorer in all of Summer League. Obviously you don't then imply Rozier is a future star, because he clearly isn't, but if you add Dunn then Rozier basically has zero playing time, and that's also lunacy. Sometimes you take the slightly less hyped up player for one who fits your system better. If you gave me the choice today to add either Mike Conley or Gordon Hayward to my team, I'm taking Hayward, even if Conley is considered the better player. And for Jaylen being ranked 7-9 look as his (potential) fit with Boston and it's clear he's ranked much higher on the Celtics board than Hield/Murray

Every asset in the Celtics trade has more value than everyone offered in your fake Davis trade, except maybe Dieng is equal to Smart. And Davis has literally 1000x more value than Westbrook currently has -- he's under contract for five more years where as Westbrook is an impending UFA.

Also there is no way the Thunder let him walk to the Spurs at the end of the year. Westbrook has seen how publicly humiliated the franchise has been when KD left them, and so when they ask Westbrook this offseason (if they already haven't), he knows that he will be traded if he doesn't want to stay. Obviously there is a chance he will re-sign, but if so the Thunder already know of it. But if he tells them won't re-sign they HAVE to trade him, and it will be hard to get fair compensation for a guy teams know will be a UFA. Like hypothetically, why would the Lakers trade Ingram and D'Lo for Russ when they can outright sign him in FA that next summer, if he wants to go to LA? Things like that lower his value immensely

When you're drafting that high you always go BPA and not off of need. Felt like that was dumb of them to not move back and at least acquire more if they weren't going to take Dunn

 

[bosoxlover12]

You can't move back if nobody is willing to trade up. It takes two to trade

Not to mention that Phoenix really liked Jaylen Brown as well. Brown's value probably seemed lower because he wasn't going to be drafted by Minnesota or New Orleans -- if he didn't go 3/4 he'd go 7/8. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't go 3/4 though. It seemed like the Bender pick felt a little last minute, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Suns were banking on taking Jaylen with the fourth pick.

So if Boston wanted Jaylen above all, either you try to trade back if a team offers proper compensation in return and hope the guy you want is still there, or you just take the guy you want. Like, the Bucks could have traded down 6 spots and still gotten Thon but what if he was gone already? Nobody in 5 years will say "Man, the Bucks should have traded down to get Maker" if he ends up good. Same applies to Jaylen

 

[bosoxlover12]

And BPA means a little, but it's not everything.

Taking Dunn would have meant we have six guards 6'5" or smaller, and one player between 6'6"-6'8". That's not smart game planning at all, even if Dunn is considered a better player. I'd rather run Rozier and Jaylen over Dunn and Abdel Nader in my second line every day of the week.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

So they drafted based on their current need for a backup at a position with a #3 overall pick for a team that isn't contending? That makes a lot of sense.

 

[cavsfan817]

Dunn would have easily been the best out of those guards right away except for maybe Bradley tho lol. You have a lot of depth but most of it is substandard. And bypassing someone of his caliber because you have weak depth just doesn't make sense when the player you picked is going to be a backup anyway. And this is coming from someone that likes Brown a lot.

 

[bosoxlover12]

Isaiah is better than Dunn too bruh -- hope you just forgot to say his name

And it's not substandard depth at all. Rozier is a solid backup point guard, and is not a negative player. Smart's defense is amazing and his shot should be better this year -- playable for sure. Yes Dunn would be better, but he still wouldn't start. Nobody after the Top 2 picks would be starters right now for Boston. So rather than being forced to never play Rozier who looked amazing this Summer League and have scraps play backup wing, you take Jaylen Brown who can provide immediate defensive impact at the 3 and play 20 minutes a game. You can't run a team gunning for an ECF berth with no backup SF. What happens when Jae Crowder goes down with an injury? Are you comfortable starting the 57th overall pick? Or starting three guards under 6'4" and play them all 35+ minutes a game? You gotta be ready for anything


Look, clearly I'm not going to convince any of you guys on Jaylen Brown. Y'all will continue to say that it was a bad pick, that I am wrong on Brown's fit in Boston... just like y'all were ripping on me for saying Boston would draft Brown before the NBA Draft. Heaven forbid the guy who watches Celtics games all the time understands the team and the team's identity better than just overall NBA fans. Same reason why I wouldn't try to convince Nola about the Pelicans depth chart, or CC about Duke -- y'all shouldn't be telling me how Boston runs its team. I've seen Brad Stevens coach for the past four years and I've seen who Ainge drafts for the past like 12 years or so. It might not be who y'all think the picks should be but you also don't watch and study how the Celtics run their organization

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Why are you so fixated on immediate fit with this year's roster with the #3 overall pick?

 

[bosoxlover12]

Because we aren't a normal scrub team who's focus is to develop the young player. We're a playoff team who is trying to get better and better in an effort to make the ECF (and hopefully the Finals eventually) and our primary goal isn't to develop the 19 year old, which contrasts from every other team picking 1-8. So yeah, you can't just look at the pick in terms of BPA, you have to look at what best helps the team. And sure I would have liked to trade the pick for a better talent, but when the price for someone like Jimmy Butler is Bradley, Crowder, Smart, and 3 BKN 1sts... It isn't happening. We didnt have a trade good enough to do, so we took the player who could help us the most in terms of immediate and future success. Jaylen's three years younger than Dunn and has a ton of potential still. It's not solely looking at now when taking the pick, but it factors in a lot more than any of you guys realize

 

[cavsfan817]

Should've just ponied up and got Butler

 

[bosoxlover12]

Lol no

Chicago was asking for more than I'd give up for Boogie (although that's close to what I would give for Cousins). There's no way I'd trade that much for Butler, who I think is massively overrated

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Drafting with the #3 pick based on a positional need in your second unit is incredibly short-sighted. To be fair, I don't even think that's what they did, but it's been your primary argument to validate the pick. 

 

[cavsfan817]

Boston needs star power. They are relevant based on their continued improvement and bringing in Horford, but if they want any shot of getting out of the east they need to bring in another force. The NBA is about star power and I would've overpaid if need be for another big guy.

I think it's pretty obvious that most people agree Boston overvalued their team. Boston kept changing their offer, as reported by Chicago media members, but the most "concrete" thing that was offered was Crowder + two 1sts. You're telling me that those picks and a rotational defensive specialist is worth more than Jimmy Butler? I don't see it.

 

[bosoxlover12]

I think Jae (on the second best non-rookie contract in basketball for $28.2M/4), #3 overall, and a 2018 BKN 1st is a very fair deal for both teams, but Chicago said they wouldn't do less than Smart and the 2017 BKN 1st added as well, plus they wanted Bradley as well if they could. But if Chicago's counter was only Jae/#3/2018 1st, it would have been done. Chicago overvalued Butler, who I personally would not do that Jae Crowder deal for but I know the Celtics would.

 

[bosoxlover12]

Drafting with the #3 pick based on a positional need in your second unit is incredibly short-sighted. To be fair, I don't even think that's what they did, but it's been your primary argument to validate the pick. 

It's not a primary argument, but its one that needs to be stated. I've said from the pre-draft process that Jaylen is a perfect fit for Boston's up-tempo offense with a focus on defensive physicality. The three previous years' first round picks were all considered in the same mold: a defensive backcourt/wing with an attacking nature on offense. Granted, both Smart and Young strayed away from their offensive identity at college, but Rozier hasn't and its clearly the type of player Ainge likes to take. Jaylen is incredibly intelligent (something that peaked Stevens' interest a ton) and he fits that defensive nature. I've said for a long time that Jaylen is a perfect Celtic -- the fact that he's the best SF in the draft was just icing on the cake

 

[CameronCrazy06]

It's not a primary argument, but its one that needs to be stated. I've said from the pre-draft process that Jaylen is a perfect fit for Boston's up-tempo offense with a focus on defensive physicality. The three previous years' first round picks were all considered in the same mold: a defensive backcourt/wing with an attacking nature on offense. Granted, both Smart and Young strayed away from their offensive identity at college, but Rozier hasn't and its clearly the type of player Ainge likes to take. Jaylen is incredibly intelligent (something that peaked Stevens' interest a ton) and he fits that defensive nature. I've said for a long time that Jaylen is a perfect Celtic -- the fact that he's the best SF in the draft was just icing on the cake

Ingram?

Anyways, drafting four players in a row that are basically very similar doesn't sound like great strategy to me. I'd wager to say that Boston won't be as successful as they'd like with their roster as currently constructed

 

[bosoxlover12]

Sorry I kinda mentally block out the top two picks because they were never in contention to be on any other team. Yeah, Ingram is definitely better than Jaylen lol

 

[AiRuPtHeRe]

I'd much rather have Jaylen Brown playing 20 minutes behind Crowder along side with Smart/Rozier playing backups over probably Jonas and Kris Dunn/Smart/Rozier struggling to find consistent minutes for those 3. People keep saying oh Rozier sucks blah blah blah but there is a reason why Boston took him pretty early last season in the draft and he's shown his ability so far in summer league. So far Jaylen has said and done the right things which makes him a better match for Boston. Fuck the mindset that Kris Dunn has of not wanting to play in Boston tbh.

 

[elcheato]

I guess I understand why Boston fans like Marcus Smart and hype the shit out of him, but the sudden, random praise for Rozier is pretty damn funny. 

 

[Paulius]

But dunn > IT in a couple years

 

[Hurricane Season]

Lol no

Chicago was asking for more than I'd give up for Boogie (although that's close to what I would give for Cousins). There's no way I'd trade that much for Butler, who I think is massively overrated

 
You keep saying this, and I've never seen anything posted anywhere online that lists what the Bulls actually wanted in return.  All I've seen is that the Celtics lowballed the Bulls and wouldn't budge beyond a #3 + Crowder package.