Darvish to Cubs

[brett05]

Brett, its wonderful that you live inside a book or a computer while I am actually watching the game played on the field.  Have a wonderful time playing with your statistics and I will continue watching the game as its supposed to be played.
Again, Darvish to the Cubs is a great pickup.  Quintana is a fine pitcher that needs a bit more seasoning before he will be an ace for a contending team.  He might make it, but then he might not.  Until Lester shows that he cannot pitch at a high level, he is still the staff ace.  Darvish slots in after that and then Quintana.  He may be the best #3 pitcher in the bigs right now, but that is where he should be with the Cubs.

Are you sure you are as old as you say you are or is your fruit just a sign of your intelligence?
 
Glad you put me in my place.

 

[elcheato]

Dismissing stats because you don't want to bother learning about them is a fools game.

Catman, have you watched every single Quintana start from the last 5 years? If not, you've disqualified yourself, because you've already stated your logic is based on "what you see on the field", so you can't accurately gauge his talent if that's where your argument comes from

 

[A.E]

 
 
 
 
You all need to watch more baseball and baseball analysts as well as researching numbers.

 
11-11 with a 4.15 ERA screams "ACE".  You're so right.

 

[catman]

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I have watched thousands of baseball games in my life.  I know what I see on the field and as I have said, Quintana is a very good pitcher.  He may be the best pitcher on the Cubs team, but he needs a bit more experience before I would put him in the top 10.  He didn't even make the "Shredder's"just missed list on MLB Network.  Brian Kinney digs through all of the analytics and didn't even mention him on the show of the 10 top starting pitchers right now.  If he doesn't even warrant a mention on that show, he is no where near top 10.
All this being said, Darvish to the Cubs is still a good move.  Not sure he is worth what they paid him, but he is a solid starter.

 

[brett05]

 
11-11 with a 4.15 ERA screams "ACE".  You're so right.

Way to reduce it to a single year and ignore the evidence since 2012.  Bravo!

 

[brett05]

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I have watched thousands of baseball games in my life.  I know what I see on the field and as I have said, Quintana is a very good pitcher.  He may be the best pitcher on the Cubs team, but he needs a bit more experience before I would put him in the top 10.  He didn't even make the "Shredder's"just missed list on MLB Network.  Brian Kinney digs through all of the analytics and didn't even mention him on the show of the 10 top starting pitchers right now.  If he doesn't even warrant a mention on that show, he is no where near top 10.
All this being said, Darvish to the Cubs is still a good move.  Not sure he is worth what they paid him, but he is a solid starter.

Along with ESPN, the MLB Network doesn't mention the 2005 White Sox among Chicago Teams with championships so not surprising.  What you did was make the case for Q being #1 in underrated.
 
FTR, I don't see anyone bashing Yu, but you keep defending him like someone is.

 

[catman]

Sorry Brett.  MLB Network is very analytics oriented.  If they don't even mention Quintana, he isn't among the top pitchers in the game.  Also, if you don't think fantasy baseball takes analytics into account when ranking players, you are less informed than you should be. 
By the way, when did you become a Cubs fan?
As far as ESPN goes, I don't pay much attention to them.  They concentrate on football and basketball.  Baseball is an afterthought for them.    And, as far as the 2005 White Sox go, I agree.  They are not given the credit they deserve.  That was an excellent team that all had great seasons at once.  
The reason I keep coming back to Darvish is because this thread is about him, not Quintana.  If you want to start a thread about Quintana, by all means, do so.

 

[brett05]

Sorry Brett.  MLB Network is very analytics oriented.  If they don't even mention Quintana, he isn't among the top pitchers in the game.  Also, if you don't think fantasy baseball takes analytics into account when ranking players, you are less informed than you should be. 
By the way, when did you become a Cubs fan?
As far as ESPN goes, I don't pay much attention to them.  They concentrate on football and basketball.  Baseball is an afterthought for them.    And, as far as the 2005 White Sox go, I agree.  They are not given the credit they deserve.  That was an excellent team that all had great seasons at once.  
The reason I keep coming back to Darvish is because this thread is about him, not Quintana.  If you want to start a thread about Quintana, by all means, do so.

1)  If you think Fantasy Baseball is geared to anything but winning a fictitious sport I can't help you out.  Sorry man.
 
2)  We can talk about Yu.  He's a top 12-20ish pitcher

 

[catman]

Whatever you say about fantasy baseball, Brett.  How else do they come up with rankings and values?  Past performance and projections, both of which are analytically directed.  
I'm not sure Yu is even that high.  He is a good pitcher, but not sure he is that good.  There are a lot of great young pitchers in the game today.

 

[brett05]

Whatever you say about fantasy baseball, Brett.  How else do they come up with rankings and values?  Past performance and projections, both of which are analytically directed.  
I'm not sure Yu is even that high.  He is a good pitcher, but not sure he is that good.  There are a lot of great young pitchers in the game today.

Fantasy is done specifically to win the fictitious game of fantasy baseball.
 
Those pitchers have a lot to prove before they enter into Yu's range.

 

[PWNdroia]

Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I have watched thousands of baseball games in my life.  I know what I see on the field and as I have said, Quintana is a very good pitcher.  He may be the best pitcher on the Cubs team, but he needs a bit more experience before I would put him in the top 10.  He didn't even make the "Shredder's"just missed list on MLB Network.  Brian Kinney digs through all of the analytics and didn't even mention him on the show of the 10 top starting pitchers right now.  If he doesn't even warrant a mention on that show, he is no where near top 10.
All this being said, Darvish to the Cubs is still a good move.  Not sure he is worth what they paid him, but he is a solid starter.

Whether you see the game or not, or use stats, it's common sense that he isn't a #1 pitcher.  Not a real mystery there.

 

[PWNdroia]

Way to reduce it to a single year and ignore the evidence since 2012.  Bravo!

If you want stats, we could look at FIP.  Quintana has a career 3.51 FIP.  I can name several other pitchers that have a better FIP.  Lester's is higher (by a mere 4 points), but he's pitched longer and has had more ups and downs.  Quintana has been steady, but never reached the numbers of Lester's best seasons.  Yu Darvish outclasses both in career FIP (3.30).

 

[brett05]

Whether you see the game or not, or use stats, it's common sense that he isn't a #1 pitcher.  Not a real mystery there.

"Just trust me."  
 
Yawn....

 

[brett05]

If you want stats, we could look at FIP.  Quintana has a career 3.51 FIP.  I can name several other pitchers that have a better FIP.  Lester's is higher (by a mere 4 points), but he's pitched longer and has had more ups and downs.  Quintana has been steady, but never reached the numbers of Lester's best seasons.  Yu Darvish outclasses both in career FIP (3.30).

While I have issues with FIP, let's use it.  Stats thru present season:
2012- Q was 10th, 2013- 6th, 2014- 7th 2015- 6th 2016-7th, and 2017 Q was 14th.  Yu over those periods of time was never ahead of Q and Lester is only ahead by .04 in 2012 to current but no other time periods.
 
Lester does have the best season with your stat in 2014 of 2.80.  But calling Q's 2.81 not reaching the season of Lester in the same year I might add seems a lack of understanding.
 
I mean if you want to say that baseball only has Kershaw, Sale, Scherzer as #1's then there is no argument.  And then say there are only a couple of #2's and everyone else is at best a #3, no issues.  Your definition would be awful, but at least it would be a definition of sorts.

 

[PWNdroia]

While I have issues with FIP, let's use it.  Stats thru present season:
2012- Q was 10th, 2013- 6th, 2014- 7th 2015- 6th 2016-7th, and 2017 Q was 14th.  Yu over those periods of time was never ahead of Q and Lester is only ahead by .04 in 2012 to current but no other time periods.
 
Lester does have the best season with your stat in 2014 of 2.80.  But calling Q's 2.81 not reaching the season of Lester in the same year I might add seems a lack of understanding.
 
I mean if you want to say that baseball only has Kershaw, Sale, Scherzer as #1's then there is no argument.  And then say there are only a couple of #2's and everyone else is at best a #3, no issues.  Your definition would be awful, but at least it would be a definition of sorts.

Actually it's
 
Kershaw
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Scherzer
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Everyone else

 

[brett05]

Max is awfully darn close to Clayton and I think Max was the better pitcher even with the time off Clayton had in 2017

 

[PWNdroia]

Max is awfully darn close to Clayton and I think Max was the better pitcher even with the time off Clayton had in 2017

 
I disagree.  I know Max Scherzer suddenly got supernatural in his career come 2013, but even since then, Kershaw is still leagues better than everyone else.
 
Through 2013 to 2017, Scherzer has a 2.90 FIP, 1092 innings pitched, 1320 strikeouts, 2.87 ERA, and a .988 WHIP.
 
Through 2013 to 2017, Kershaw has a 2.21 FIP, 991 IP, 1146 strikeouts, 1.95 ERA, and a .873 WHIP.
 
Scherzer's only better when you count longevity and strikeouts.  Kershaw is leagues above him in everything else (almost .70 higher in FIP, almost a whole run lower in ERA, and .100 lower in WHIP).
 
Scherzer might have been better in 2017, but that gives him 1 to Kershaw's 4 better seasons.

 

[brett05]

I might argue that they were equal in 2013 and then Max thanks to Clayton being hurt better the past two seasons crowning with Cy's in both sesaons, but I think you've convinced me that when healthy Kershaw is more than a bit better than Max.

 

[PWNdroia]

I might argue that they were equal in 2013 and then Max thanks to Clayton being hurt better the past two seasons crowning with Cy's in both sesaons, but I think you've convinced me that when healthy Kershaw is more than a bit better than Max.

That's just it.  It's about health and Scherzer is up there with him last year because Kershaw wasn't healthy. 

 

[Pugz]

hindsight is a bitch but i would have paid max regardless in detroit. i am always 110% for a rebuild when its due but in tiger land, i would have been fine with justin, miggy, and max retiring as tigs