Darvish to Cubs

[PWNdroia]

Brett doesn't seem to realize that Quintana is no longer with the White Sox.  He doesn't have to be a homer any more.

Honestly, I never understood what his argument was to begin with.  He just said I was wrong without even telling me what it was I said that was wrong.

 

[Pugz]

Brett doesn't seem to realize that Quintana is no longer with the White Sox.  He doesn't have to be a homer any more.

this post is awesome

 

[brett05]

Wow okay then.

I'll listen to their advice and do whatever they say. No sense having an opinion when all the writers are right.

By the way, I still have no clue about what they are disagreeing with me about.

 
 

Haven’t heard nor read a single person outside of Brett005 suggest Quintana is a #1 SP.

 
 

Brett doesn't seem to realize that Quintana is no longer with the White Sox.  He doesn't have to be a homer any more.

You all need to watch more baseball and baseball analysts as well as researching numbers.

 

[catman]

Quintana is a very good pitcher, not near the top 10 in the game though.  He might be a better pitcher than Darvish and Lester, but I would still put him in the #3 slot.  

 

[brett05]

Quintana is a very good pitcher, not near the top 10 in the game though.  He might be a better pitcher than Darvish and Lester, but I would still put him in the #3 slot.  

What makes you think that he's no where near?  I agree he is outside of the top 10 after last year but the prior four years quite easily top 10 based on WAR

 

[PWNdroia]

Quintana is a very good pitcher, not near the top 10 in the game though.  He might be a better pitcher than Darvish and Lester, but I would still put him in the #3 slot.  

Lester and Darvish are both better than Quintana.

 

[bosoxlover12]

idk if id say lester is still better than quintana

 

[brett05]

Lester and Darvish are both better than Quintana.

Uhhh..Lester was as good as Q, now behind.  Darvish right now is better, yes

 

[catman]

What makes you think that he's no where near?  I agree he is outside of the top 10 after last year but the prior four years quite easily top 10 based on WAR

Again I will say that Quintana is a very good pitcher, one I would love to have on my team.  As to top 10, he isn't there.  I watch a lot of baseball and have since well before you were born.  I do not need to look at obscure stats to determine how good a player is.  

 

[brett05]

Again I will say that Quintana is a very good pitcher, one I would love to have on my team.  As to top 10, he isn't there.  I watch a lot of baseball and have since well before you were born.  I do not need to look at obscure stats to determine how good a player is.  

1)  Not sure how old you are, but not many are older than me.
2)  I am wrong, since 2012 Jose has never been worse than Yu
3)  Check fWAR 2012 thru 2017, 2013 thru 2017, etc and here's what you'll find.  Q is top 10 without a doubt, his worst was last year and he came in at #14.  Oh yeah, he pitched mostly in the AL to boot.
 
Argue what you want, but there are no facts to back any of you dissenters up.

 

[catman]

As I said, Quintana is not a top 10 pitcher.  Look at the fantasy values.  Quintana is valued at $20 this season, ranking 18th among
starters.  There are 3 relievers that are worth more also.  
Again I will say that you don't need to be a homer for Quintana anymore.  He isn't with the White Sox.
And, by the way, I was born in 1954.  I have watched baseball in 7 decades from Ted Williams/Warren Spahn to the present.  I know baseball.
Aren't you the one that said a guy that won a gold glove wasn't a plus defender?

 

[brett05]

As I said, Quintana is not a top 10 pitcher.  Look at the fantasy values.  Quintana is valued at $20 this season, ranking 18th among
starters.  There are 3 relievers that are worth more also.  
Again I will say that you don't need to be a homer for Quintana anymore.  He isn't with the White Sox.
And, by the way, I was born in 1954.  I have watched baseball in 7 decades from Ted Williams/Warren Spahn to the present.  I know baseball.
Aren't you the one that said a guy that won a gold glove wasn't a plus defender?

You are older than me.  I'm 1973.
Fantasy is your evidence?  Try again please.  I used fWAR to prove the point that from 2012 to present Q is a top 10 pitcher.  Can you use something tangible? 
 
Also if you are going to call me a homer, please define since my objective measure shows otherwise.  Thanks!

 

[brett05]

oh, and for the GG discussion, I have no idea what you are speaking about

 

[bosoxlover12]

Jeter is a gold glove winner lets not just assume every GG winner was a great defender now (even though they should)

 

[catman]

Brett, lets try this angle.  Let Quintana grow into the ace you think he is.  Let him pitch a full season without all the pressure you'd put on him.  I wouldn't want to go up against DeGrom, Bumgarner, Scherzer, Kershaw, etc for a full season.  Lester and Darvish have far more post-season experience than Quintana does.  He has 4 total post-season games (3 as a starter), 13.1 IP, 9 runs allowed -- 5.40 ERA.  1 game as a starter was pretty good, 2 were not so good.  Lester has 148 post-season innings with a 2.55 ERA.  Darvish has pitched 26.1 innings, some very good, others very bad.  His post-season ERA is 5.81.  He has been "the man" on his team during several pennant races.  
I might consider pitching Quintana 2nd, after Lester, but splitting the lefties up would be a good idea.  Until Lester shows he is not a reliable starter, he will be #1.
And, by the way, fantasy values take into consideration all of the obscure stats you like to throw around here.  They take FIP, WHIP, K/9, etc into the equation to determine what the player is worth.

 

[brett05]

Brett, lets try this angle.  Let Quintana grow into the ace you think he is.  Let him pitch a full season without all the pressure you'd put on him.  I wouldn't want to go up against DeGrom, Bumgarner, Scherzer, Kershaw, etc for a full season.  Lester and Darvish have far more post-season experience than Quintana does.  He has 4 total post-season games (3 as a starter), 13.1 IP, 9 runs allowed -- 5.40 ERA.  1 game as a starter was pretty good, 2 were not so good.  Lester has 148 post-season innings with a 2.55 ERA.  Darvish has pitched 26.1 innings, some very good, others very bad.  His post-season ERA is 5.81.  He has been "the man" on his team during several pennant races.  
I might consider pitching Quintana 2nd, after Lester, but splitting the lefties up would be a good idea.  Until Lester shows he is not a reliable starter, he will be #1.
And, by the way, fantasy values take into consideration all of the obscure stats you like to throw around here.  They take FIP, WHIP, K/9, etc into the equation to determine what the player is worth.

Fantasy does no such thing
I do no throw around obscure stats.  If you watch baseball as much as you claim fWAR would not be something someone with your experience would call obscure. 
Let's look at the numbers shall we since you are not.
 
2012-2017 fWAR leaders for pitchers:
Kerhsaw 40.3
Scherzer 33.7
Sale 33.7
Kluber 28.7
Price 27.9
Verlander 26.9
Greinke 25.7
Strasburg 24.7
Lester 23.6
Quintana 23.5 (10th)
 
2013-2017
Kershaw 34.4
Scherzer 29.3
Sale 28.9
Kluber 28.1
Price 22.9
Quintana 21.8 (6th)
 
2014-2017
Kershaw 27.3
Kluber 25.3
Sale 24.1
Scherzer 23.3
Arrieta 18.5
Price 18.5
Quintana 18.4 (7th)
 
2015-2017
Kershaw 19.7
Sale 18.9
Scherzer 18.0
Kluber 17.9
Arrieta 13.5
Quintana 13.3 (6th)
 
2016-2017
Sale 12.7
Kluber 12.3
Scherzer 11.6
Kershaw 11.1
Strasburg 9.5
Verlander 9.4
Quintana 8.6 (7th)
 
And finally just last season (2017)
Sale 7.7
Kluber 7.3
Scherzer 6.0
Severino 5.7
Strasburg 5.6
Carrasco 5.5
Greinke 5.1
Nelson 4.9
Kershaw 4.6
Archer 4.6
deGrom 4.4
Nola 4.3
Verlander 4.1
Quintana 3.9 (14th)
 
He had one bad playoff appearance out of 4. 
Now tell me again how Quintana is at best a #2?
 
You want to say there are 10  folks pitching since 2012 that are better than Q in the playoffs?  That's an argument.
You want to say Q is not a top 10 pitcher?  Still waiting for someone who can be objective besides me on that one.

 

[PWNdroia]

idk if id say lester is still better than quintana

Remember when everyone said Lester was done after an awful 2012? One bad season or two that are outliers don't make you bad.

The same could be said about Porcello on the opposite side... Two outlier good seasons.

Yes, I had to throw in the Porcello card there.

 

[Pugz]

catman is throwing heat and im liking it

 

[catman]

Brett, its wonderful that you live inside a book or a computer while I am actually watching the game played on the field.  Have a wonderful time playing with your statistics and I will continue watching the game as its supposed to be played.
Again, Darvish to the Cubs is a great pickup.  Quintana is a fine pitcher that needs a bit more seasoning before he will be an ace for a contending team.  He might make it, but then he might not.  Until Lester shows that he cannot pitch at a high level, he is still the staff ace.  Darvish slots in after that and then Quintana.  He may be the best #3 pitcher in the bigs right now, but that is where he should be with the Cubs.

 

[PWNdroia]

Brett, its wonderful that you live inside a book or a computer while I am actually watching the game played on the field.  Have a wonderful time playing with your statistics and I will continue watching the game as its supposed to be played.
Again, Darvish to the Cubs is a great pickup.  Quintana is a fine pitcher that needs a bit more seasoning before he will be an ace for a contending team.  He might make it, but then he might not.  Until Lester shows that he cannot pitch at a high level, he is still the staff ace.  Darvish slots in after that and then Quintana.  He may be the best #3 pitcher in the bigs right now, but that is where he should be with the Cubs.

This, at least about the pitchers part.

Perfectly said.