Trouble in Cleveland

[jonathanlambert33]

Kind of sounds like more blame should be placed on the shoulders of the players, and not the coaches.

 

[elcheato]

You could do that if one of the coaches wasn't fired for the 3rd time for the same reasons, and the other coach didn't stunt the development of the best player the game has right now, and was fired by two teams who had two of the best offensive talents in the league. This is on Dan Gilbert & Chris Grant for their handling of the coaching search.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I find it hard to place a ton of blame on Gilbert and Grant on their coaching decisions when their roster doesn't respect the coaches. It doesn't have anything to do with the abilities or inabilities of Scott and Brown, but more to do that the Cavs roster is made up of a bunch of immature conceited players. I don't care who the coach is, there is no reason two separate coaches should lose the same locker room in two consecutive seasons. If that's the kind of players those guys will bring in, then they won't ever hire a successful coach, because those players clearly don't respect their coach and Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, or Rick Carlisle aren't walking through that door.

 

[elcheato]

Again, I would normally agree, but we've seen this with Mike Brown, we've seen this with Byron Scott to a lessor extent. They have lost their teams at every stop. Players publicly criticize them and there are always rumblings of them not being respected within the locker room.
 
I'm not even that upset with the Byron Scott one, I knew the team would be shitty, so did Grant. They just needed anyone to coach through it. But they didn't even look into anyone else this off-season. They literally handed Mike Brown the job. Now, I'll admit, I was for it at the time. I thought maybe he had learned some from being fired twice, but nothing has changed, and he's not even improving the defense. His philosophies aren't working as well with the new age PF who can stretch the floor and dribble some.

 

[Pugz]

I WANT FREE APPLESAUCE

 

[BwareDWare94]

There's no accountability in basketball, anymore. Players aren't happy, aren't performing, and then want out. Then it's all "so and so deserves better."

it's the reason that there's no parity in professional basketball. It's exactly why there's always the classic teams (about 95% of the time, anyway--this'll be the first time in how many years that both LAL and Boston miss the playoffs, and it likely won't happen again because one will get significantly better in the offseason), and then there are more obscure franchises that have built great teams through development but will only fall into mediocrity when those great players decline. Only the Spurs defy that logic, and who says they can keep it up after Timmy retires?
 
Cleveland had it with LeBron, he left, they suck again even though they have a top tier talent who should elevate those around him, but doesn't. Are we going to hold Kyrie accountable, or are we going to say he deserves better? I think he's got enough to lead a competitive team, but continues to prove that he's just a selfish volume scorer with a nice handle. If they were competitive, Cleveland would be a more attractive place for free agents.
 
Kyrie becomes a wasted pick the instant he bolts, and though it isn't all Cleveland's fault, they have to start playing hardball with him, right now.. Cleveland has to hold him accountable for is shortcomings or he may stunt his own development through selfishness.
 
If I was Dan Gilbert, I'd tell Mike Brown to start holding Kyrie accountable or to announce his resigning the next day. 

 

[elcheato]

And I'm not blaming it all on coaching, I just think its the most glaring issue here. Waiters doesn't have the potential I thought he did, Tristan's improved jumper has helped his game, even though he stayed healthy, the Bynum signing was a failure.

But, the big problem here is, our young players have regressed this season. That's on the coaches. They brought in Luol Deng and turned him into a spot up shooter and iso ball handler, thats not his game. That's a coaching philosophy, or a lack thereof

 

[elcheato]

There's no accountability in basketball, anymore. Players aren't happy, aren't performing, and then want out. Then it's all "so and so deserves better."

it's the reason that there's no parity in professional basketball. It's exactly why there's always the classic teams (about 95% of the time, anyway--this'll be the first time in how many years that both LAL and Boston miss the playoffs, and it likely won't happen again because one will get significantly better in the offseason), and then there are more obscure franchises that have built great teams through development but will only fall into mediocrity when those great players decline. Only the Spurs defy that logic, and who says they can keep it up after Timmy retires?
 
Cleveland had it with LeBron, he left, they suck again even though they have a top tier talent who should elevate those around him, but doesn't. Are we going to hold Kyrie accountable, or are we going to say he deserves better? I think he's got enough to lead a competitive team, but continues to prove that he's just a selfish volume scorer with a nice handle. If they were competitive, Cleveland would be a more attractive place for free agents.
 
Kyrie becomes a wasted pick the instant he bolts, and though it isn't all Cleveland's fault, they have to start playing hardball with him, right now.. Cleveland has to hold him accountable for is shortcomings or he may stunt his own development through selfishness.
 
If I was Dan Gilbert, I'd tell Mike Brown to start holding Kyrie accountable or to announce his resigning the next day. 

i agree with you on him needing to be held accountable, but not for being a supposed selfish volume scorer. Calling him a volume scorer is a complete injustice to him. He's an elite scorer when right. Selfish? No, wen you have a guy that good at scoring, you want him to instead of Alonzo Gee. He has pretty much the same assist percentage as Kyle Lowry, who is everyone's apparent love child now.

He needs to be held accountable defensively, and he needs to be put in an actual offensive system

 

[BwareDWare94]

Those 6 assists clearly aren't helping the team at all. He needs to be held accountable for defense and for not bettering those around him. Yeah, he needs to score his points because your other weapons aren't consistent, but consistency tends to come with consistent opportunities. Guys like Waiters need to know the places on the floor where Kyrie will get them the ball. Do they? Do the other 4 members of the starting 5 know the kinds of places to be so Irving will get them the ball? I doubt it.
 
Kyle Lowry is everybody's love child because of the way he plays. Dude's relentless. 

 

[CameronCrazy06]

It always comes back to Kyle Lowry...

 

[elcheato]

Those 6 assists clearly aren't helping the team at all. He needs to be held accountable for defense and for not bettering those around him. Yeah, he needs to score his points because your other weapons aren't consistent, but consistency tends to come with consistent opportunities. Guys like Waiters need to know the places on the floor where Kyrie will get them the ball. Do they? Do the other 4 members of the starting 5 know the kinds of places to be so Irving will get them the ball? I doubt it.
 
Kyle Lowry is everybody's love child because of the way he plays. Dude's relentless. 

It's not about the "6 assists", it's about having the same assist percentage as someone you won't shut up about, who you think is a perfect player. Consistency does not come with consistent opportunities if the talent isn't there. Thompson & Varejao can't score on their own, Dion has been a highly inefficient player, and Luol Deng is being used improperly by the coaches

 

[CameronCrazy06]

But..... but...... Kyle Lowry.

 

[footballplaya52]

"Cleveland isn't aloud to have nice things" - God

 

[buzzy]

God is pretty bad at spelling

 

[jonathanlambert33]

To be completely fair, I get where yall are coming from with Lowry, but if you look at the entire season, neither he or Kyrie's assist percentage is good. They're both poor, actually. But while the numbers may be a little close (32.1% for Kyrie and 34.4% for Kyle), in reality how close is it really? There are so many more things you can take into account.

For example, yes those percentages are close, but when you actually break it down passed the percentages, Lowry is accounting for 20 more points per 100 possessions, with his passing alone. I don't think anyone can say that's not a relatively big margin.

And then there is the assist to turnover ratio, which Kyle Lowry leads by an entire assist. 3.4 assists to 1 turnover, to 2.4 assists to 1 turnover for Kyrie. Again, over the course of a game, that's a big margin.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Kyrie has to do things for his team that Lowry doesn't. Sometimes that means he has to force things that aren't there. It's no surprise Irving's A/TO isn't great.

 

[BwareDWare94]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kyle Lowry's been a hot topic since the Rudy Gay trade--most folks are talking about him. I'm not going on like I was a few years ago, in any case, and I said that he's relentless up there because someone else had mentioned Kyle being everybody's love child. People love relentless players like that. It's just in our nature as sports fans to like players who constantly go all out. No matter how abrasive I find Russ and no matter how much I hate how demonstrative he is, I love watching him play. They're not the same player, obviously, but Russ is another example of a player who's relentless.
 
And as for Kyrie not having the talent around him? All I hear is excuses. He's got enough to be competitive in THIS Eastern Conference. Come the fuck on. 

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Their team sucks bro. Awful coach. Awful talent. Awful chemistry.

 

[BwareDWare94]

Their team sucks bro. Awful coach. Awful talent. Awful chemistry.

 
You're pretty much talking about teams 5 on in the EC. The Cavs SHOULD be up there, somewhere. 

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Teams in the east with more talent:

Pacers
Bulls
Pistons
Wizards
Heat
Hawks
Bobcats
Knicks
Nets
Raptors

Basically every team ahead of them