The Young One @ .snowy

[.snowy]

The Young One @ .snowy

TOPIC: Who is the best Sixth Man in the NBA?

The Young One has the right to post first.​

You will have a week to exchange posts. If you feel like you're argument is closed, then you can close it, that just means your opponent can continue to debate his point and argue against yours. No maximum or minimum number of points, all depends on how concise or elaborate you want to be.

Once each debater has closed their argument, or I close the debate, then the three judges will be assigning each debater a score out of 10. When scoring, the judges should assess how well the debater has proven their point, using valid and relevant discussion, statistical evidence where appropriate, rebuttal where applicable, and overall coherency.

Judges are allowed to deem the debate a tie, giving each debater the same score out of 10. I am using this scoring system, as opposed to simply voting, as a back up for a tie breaker in the standings.

 

[The Young One]

I am going to say the best sixth man in the nba is Jason Terry. I will explain later

 

[.snowy]

And I am going to say Manu Ginobili. I will post later too.

 

[.snowy]

Now before I argue against Jason Terry, I will first establish why I believe Ginobili is the best sixth man in the league.

Ginobili's 7th year in the league has seen him develop into one of the most explosive, agile scorers in the league, who is capable of making his own shot nearly as well as the elite in the league. Whether it be a break away dunk, a pull up three pointer, or driving and shaking hard to the ring, Manu is a genuine scorer.

It is my opinion that the most important feature of a good Sixth Man is the ability to provide a genuine spark, both mentally and physically. The intangible qualities that he provides are what makes him above and beyond any other bench player in my eyes. Averaging 14.8 points per game throughout his career (peaking at 19.5), is of course great for any Sixth Man to provide for any team, but what you don't see by looking at the statistics is how important those baskets are. How many times in the final quarter do you see Manu drive hard to the bucket and get fouled? How many times do you see him pull up, and have the courage to take the big shot? It is these intangibles, which I believe send him ahead of Terry.

You can mention is 3.6 assists and 1.5 steals, but they really don't need to come into consideration, when all you need to look at is the way he goes about playing the game. The spark, the inspiration and the leadership he has, make him the best Sixth Man in the league.

 

[The Young One]

The reason i say Jason Terry is the sixth man. He is the second leader scoring on a mavs team that will be in the playoffs and could potentially shock somebody. He's a guaranteed 20 of the bench.
The mavs bench averages the most points in the league and you know jason terry is a huge part of that. Jason is having a career season this year coming off the bench. He's playing 33 minutes a game which is third on the mavs behind Dirk and J-Kidd.

Another reason is that he's more durable than Manu. Manu cant seem to stay healthy for a year. And another reason is that no sixth man averages close to Jason Terry in points. He's averaging 19.9 points a game. Meanwhile Manu averages 16.1 points a game. Jason is also more durable than manu who has never played in more than 77 games a season. Meanwhile Jason terry has played in more than 80 games since the 02-03 season.

 

[.snowy]

You see, I don't regard Terry as a true Sixth Man. Any other team in the league and he would be starting. Looking at Terry, he has started 599 games out of 784 (as of right now). The Mavericks have to put him on the bench, because if they put him in the starting lineup, then they would lose a hell of a lot with their second string shooting guards (Wright, Carroll, Green). The Mavericks labeling Terry as a 6th Man, does not neccesarily mean he is one.

Manu isn't a starter, which makes him a pure sixth man. He uses so much fire and energy, that if he were to start, he would burn out even faster than he already does. Ginobili has started 236 games and come off the bench 236 games also (as of today), indicative of the fact that his style of play is suited to coming off the bench.

The points per game average you bring up, the three point difference in the large scheme of things doesn't really come into consideration for mine. Both men have two legitimate scorers along side them, who can easily take points off of them any night (Duncan/Parker and Nowitzki/Howard, Howard was out for a while, probably causing the increase in Terrys output).

As for the injury concerns you raise, I think it comes about with Manu's style of play. The slash and drive style he uses is alot moer conjusive to injuries as opposed to Terry pulling up and taking alot of three point and mid range jumpers.

 

[The Young One]

Manu has a career average of playing 27 minutes a game. With all due respect to Dirk him and tim are two different players. Tim is arguably the greatest Power forward of all time. Dirk is a former mvp and future HOF but dirk operates from the outside meanwhile tim operates as a typical big man in the post. Which allows manu way more oppurtunities to operate from the outside meanwhile a player like jason would have to share his oppurtunities.

Josh is the third option on this mavs squad. He is known for scoring well in the first quarter and not playing greatly for the rest of the game. Josh scores 7.7 points in the first quarter which is second only to lebron james. Jet is also the bigger threat comes fourth quarter. He leads the mavs in fourth quarter scoring. Which is huge for this mavs squad because we all know about dirk's past struggles as a clutch leader.

 

[.snowy]

Just wondering, do you have anything that shows that Terry leads them in fourth quarter scoring?

You say that Duncan working down low gives Manu more opportunities to work outside, but look at how much San Antonio use the high screen game. Use that with pick n roll and pick n pop play, especially with Duncan as the screen man, Manu does find chances to both hang outside AND drive in side. I see Terry as very one dimensional in the way he scores and runs the team. Manu is multi dimensional, as well as being a stronger defender in my eyes. He averages 1.5 steals (compared to 1.3 of Terry), but with Manu's length he would certainly alter alot more dribbles and shots than Terry.

 

[DC4]

I like the Argument .snowy Made..Even tho tyo was right, I'd give the point to snowy

snowy 9/10
tyo 8/10

 

[kdogg]

Snowy: 8/10
TYO: 7/10

Snowy just had the better points/proof in this one.

 

[jarrod2323]

When scoring, the judges should assess how well the debater has proven their point, using valid and relevant discussion, statistical evidence where appropriate, rebuttal where applicable, and overall coherency.

Based on this: TYO needed one last rebuttal to equalize or push him over the edge. Both created very good statistical evidence and kept on focus. This was so close, so I had to go with the defense being a factor of a 6th man - which was finally brought up in the last .snowy post.

The Young One - 9

.snowy - 9.5

 

[.snowy]

Winner of this match by unanimous decision is .snowy​