Kevin Love Has Told Wolves He Will Leave In FA If Not Traded

[RipCity32]

I'd consider Love a #1 option.

 

[playmaker7]

here we go with the semantics

 

It's not semantics, we are not talking technicalities here. You are talking about second options that are (or were) skilled enough to be a teams first scoring option. Especially in Wade and Russell's case. Chances are if you were to make a list of the leagues best #2's, the top of that list would have guys that are good enough to be second options.

I'm talking about real second options. Guys who are the teams second best player, and that's the role they play. Not a number two who is forced into the role of a number one. Or a number one who plays second fiddle to someone else. Of course there are exceptions to the rule that second options can be stars, but that usually means that player does something else exceptionally well.

Bruh, you can make a list of players that aren't even options that could be viable number one options.
 
I still don't see the point.

 

[elcheato]

I think Love could be a #1 option, but I'm not sure how moving to the Celtics changes anything for him other than being on a franchise with a better history that he has nothing to do with.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Bruh, you can make a list of players that aren't even options that could be viable number one options.
 
I still don't see the point.

It's confusing, but Mexi is talking about #2 options that are actually in all likelihood good enough to be #1 options.

I'm strictly talking about #2 options that aren't asked to play above their skills. Are those guys stars?

 

[RipCity32]

I think Love could be a #1 option, but I'm not sure how moving to the Celtics changes anything for him other than being on a franchise with a better history that he has nothing to do with.

It doesn't. It would be a lateral move. 

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I'd consider Love a #1 option.

Let me ask you this, what do you think the parameters of being a #1 scoring option in the NBA are?

 

[RipCity32]

I'd say averaging 26 a game and ending top 5 in the league in scoring is a pretty good parameter. 

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I'd say averaging 26 a game and ending top 5 in the league in scoring is a pretty good parameter.

The 26 a game is a nice number, but if you look at how he gets that 26, it'll be much more clear.  I mean lets not ignore the 45.7% shooting for a big.  44.2% and 35.2% for the previous two seasons.

I'll re-link this post:

In games decided by three or less points, they had a losing record. Of the top 20 teams in the league, only New York, Phoenix, Washington, and Toronto were worse. Kevin Loves impact also took a nose dive in crunch time. His field goal percentage dropped 8%, his three point percentage dropped 2%, his free throw percentage dropped 14%, and most surprisingly his rebound numbers even fell off a cliff. He goes from an elite big man rebounder to an elite level swing rebounder, and hint hint a elite level swing rebounder is the equivalent of a well below average big man rebounder. Is it a conditioning issue? Who knows. But it brings me back to the "Love isn't as good as his averages" statement. He's not a guy that's going to close games for you.

Minnesota likes to isolate him at the elbow or in the short corner, but he's not an efficient option. He settles for a lot of jumpers, but shoots only 34.6% on those jumpers. Same goes for his turnarounds, step backs, etc. Minny posts him up more than anything else they do with him, and he's a solid post option, but he's still not good enough to be a great post option. His percentages could be higher in the post, though he does draw a solid number of shooting fouls. Then what else does he have? He is not an efficient pick and pop player, shooting 44% from the field and only 28% on his threes when he pops. He's more of a team offensive player. He's actually very good in transition, shooting 49% from distance and 61% in general. He's actually not an elite offensive rebounder, he's just average, but when he does pull down an offensive board he's very effective at putting it back. He's also one of the best cutters in the league. So iso, post up, p&p? Could be better. Transition, put backs, cutting, I guess some people like to call that garbage or easy buckets, he's brilliant.

And lastly that brings me back to the team. It's crunch time, defense and intensity grows, if Kevin Love isn't an effective option to get you a bucket, who is? First guess would probably be Kevin Martin. But he is not the young Kevin Martin anymore. He's a sub 40% isolation player. He's a sub 30% PnR player. He's a 35% spot up shooter. Get the point? Do you want Ricky Rubio trying to score for you? Corey Brewer? Nikola Pekovic? Again, sure you get the point. There is no one that team can count on. Back to how Minny plays in crunch time, they own the second worst point differential in the league at -2.2, only Milwaukee was worse at -2.4 points. They are 22nd offensively and the leagues worst defensively. Which is also puzzling, as they are average defensively.

 
I doubt you'll read all that, but if you do, you should see that's not a guy that's a #1.  That's a #2 who's being forced to play as a #1 because his current team doesn't have anyone better.

 

[RipCity32]

There are no exact definitions of a #1 or a #2. It is subjective.
 
And yes I do love my raw stats. Cause they show that there were only 3 people that averaged more a game than he did. I really don't care what he averaged in the crunch time, or in spot ups. Because you are missing the rest of the 75% of the game. The TWolves suck. Whether or not he came in during crunch time is pretty irrelevant for a team that never has much to play for.
So he isn't a good option is certain situations. If your definition of a #1 is being good in all situations offensively, then so be it. But if you can get me 26 a game on 45% shooting, I'll take that as my #1 option. 

 

[Mexi]

See this is where im confused
Im not saying love is a superstar. I look at his numbers in amazement because i cant believe his numbers. I did the same thing with brandon roy

But nola said can a star be a #2 option

I still dont get that

Love is a star

 

[jonathanlambert33]

There are no exact definitions of a #1 or a #2. It is subjective.
 
And yes I do love my raw stats. Cause they show that there were only 3 people that averaged more a game than he did. I really don't care what he averaged in the crunch time, or in spot ups. Because you are missing the rest of the 75% of the game. The TWolves suck. Whether or not he came in during crunch time is pretty irrelevant for a team that never has much to play for.
So he isn't a good option is certain situations. If your definition of a #1 is being good in all situations offensively, then so be it. But if you can get me 26 a game on 45% shooting, I'll take that as my #1 option. 

 
-Disappears late in games
-Can't isolate anywhere on the floor
-Low efficiency as a jump shooter
-Low efficiency as a pick and pop player
-Rarely rolls off screens
- Average post threat (Blake Griffin shot 4% better in the post)
-Great transition player
-Exceptional off ball cutter
-Good second chance player
 
Those aren't opinions.  I can't spell it out anymore than that.  Getting a lot of opportunities to score doesn't make you a #1 option, or an elite player.  If you can look at those facts, and still say that he's a #1 option, then you are just being ignorant.

 

[Pugz]

low efficiency on pick and pops and jumps shots for a player who is a pick and pop jump shooting guy sums up why he isn't a star imo

has real super gaudy numbers but hes not that guy. i do think he'd be a great sidekick to a two-way player, great. he'd probably change my opinion of him too.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

low efficiency on pick and pops and jumps shots for a player who is a pick and pop jump shooting guy sums up why he isn't a star imo

has real super gaudy numbers but hes not that guy. i do think he'd be a great sidekick to a two-way player, great. he'd probably change my opinion of him too.

 
+1

 

[RipCity32]

 
-Disappears late in games
-Can't isolate anywhere on the floor
-Low efficiency as a jump shooter
-Low efficiency as a pick and pop player
-Rarely rolls off screens
- Average post threat (Blake Griffin shot 4% better in the post)
-Great transition player
-Exceptional off ball cutter
-Good second chance player
 
Those aren't opinions.  I can't spell it out anymore than that.  Getting a lot of opportunities to score doesn't make you a #1 option, or an elite player.  If you can look at those facts, and still say that he's a #1 option, then you are just being ignorant.

You make a good point with the second chance scoring. I suppose I didn't factor that in to his scoring averages, especially cause he is a good rebound. 

 

[bosoxlover12]

I think Love could be a #1 option, but I'm not sure how moving to the Celtics changes anything for him other than being on a franchise with a better history that he has nothing to do with.

First off, I want to take the Bulls out, because I believe they won't mess up anything so they can get Melo


That said, who is interested in him? Phoenix, Golden State, Boston, New York, & the Lakers?

Out of those teams, Boston & Phoenix have superior head coaches to all of the teams, including Minny

Boston has the 3rd best roster of these 5 teams, imo. But how likely would they be a Top 4 seed in their conferences. Definitely not LA or NYK, and probably not Phoenix too. Dubs might, but they still have a lot of talented teams ahead of them. Boston easily could be a 4 seed, since the East is garbage.


I don't think Love will be able to go to a team, and win a title. I really only see Miami, SanAn, and OKC as real title threats, maybe LAC if Paul steps up next year. So I see Boston as one of the better opportunities to go far in the conference, and have a good coach. Plus I just see Boston with by far the most assets available. I don't think GS wants to move Klay

 

[BwareDWare94]

low efficiency on pick and pops and jumps shots for a player who is a pick and pop jump shooting guy sums up why he isn't a star imo

has real super gaudy numbers but hes not that guy. i do think he'd be a great sidekick to a two-way player, great. he'd probably change my opinion of him too.

 
 
Yup. I will restate that. He needs to be a #2 option.
 
I said this earlier in the year, too--Kevin Love accumulates points and rebounds. He doesn't necessarily get them when they matter. He's not an iso player, and he's not as good of a 3 point shooter as he thinks he is. He's become too much of a perimeter player for a guy who actually has some post game. All it would take for Kevin Love to make the next step is studying ZBo and developing a post game that compensates for his lack of athletic ability.

But he won't. And he won't play defense. Looking back, Kevin Love was only ever called the best 4 in the league because of LMA's disappearing acts and Griffin's inability to do anything but dunk.
 
Both of those things have changed. Now it's Love who's stuck in neutral.

 

[buzzy]

I don't think it's fair too judge him that harshly. Aside from Kevin Martin he has yet to play with a real scoring threat. There's nothing stopping the defense completely collapsing on him.

Gonna go out on a limb and say if he played with CP3 he'd have better percentages all around.