5th Annual SI Player Rankings: #6 PF

[jonathanlambert33]

So he's been playing with smaller guys since he came into the league? The Spurs haven't been playing small ball for what, 18 years? 12 without question? Come on. The guy is a center in every sense of the term.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I'll also say, you brought up earlier how him being able to step out and take a mid range jumper makes him more of a power forward because of skill set. Something like 72% of his shots came within 10 ft of the rim. That's not exactly stepping out and taking those looks.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Players Tim Duncan has started next to since David Robinson retired:

2003-04:
Rasho Nesterovic (CENTER) - 68 games
==
100% of games started at PF

2004-05:
Rasho Nesterovic (CENTER) - 66 games
==
100% of games started at PF

2005-06:
Rasho Nesterovic/Nazr Mohammed (CENTER) - 79 games
Robert Horry (POWER FORWARD) - 1 game
==
98.75% of games started at PF

2006-07:
Fabricio Oberto/Francisco Elson (CENTER) - 72 games
Robert Horry (POWER FORWARD) - 8 games
==
90% of games started at PF

2007-08:
Fabricio Oberto (CENTER) - 62 games
Kurt Thomas/Robert Horry/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 16 games
==
79.49% of games started at PF

2008-09:
Fabricio Oberto (CENTER) - 11 games
Matt Bonner/Kurt Thomas/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 64 games
==
14.67% of games started at PF

2009-10:
DeJuan Blair/Theo Ratliff (CENTER) - 21 games
Antonio McDyess/Matt Bonner (POWER FORWARD) - 56 games
==
27.27% of games started at PF

2010-11:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 64 games
Antonio McDyess/Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 12 games
==
84.21% of games started at PF

2011-12:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 56 games
Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 2 games
==
96.55% of games started at PF

2012-13:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 60 games
Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 9 games
==
86.96% of games started at PF

2013-14:
Tiago Splitter/Other (CENTER) - 43 games
Boris Diaw/Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 31 games
==
58.11% of games started at PF

2014-15:
Tiago Splitter/Other (CENTER) - 35 games
Boris Diaw/Matt Bonner/Aron Baynes/Other - 42 games
==
45.45% of games started at PF

AS A WHOLE, SINCE 2003, DUNCAN HAS STARTED 72.55% AT POWER FOWARD

Have a nice day.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I'll tell you just like I told Sal:

I've said for years, I couldn't careless where someone "starts." That's a weak and lazy argument by someone whose just a average joe fan and doesn't realliy get it. I know you're smarter than that CC.
 

I don't know how much you or others have seen him, but he's been San Antonios primary C for more than a decade, and all the evidence backs that up. You see those articles and all that because of two reasons, because he "starts" at PF and as a result these mainstream services list him at PF. But it's not about where he starts, where he plays the majority of his minutes and where he finishes games are much much much more important. Just because it's Popps philosophy to start someone like Splitter or Rasho next to him and play them 5-7 minutes together to start the half and never play them together again until the first 5-7 minutes of the next half doesn't make him a PF. I've seen a ton of Duncan through the years because I get Spurs games locally and league pass, and Monty is a disciple of Popp so I understand the strategy very well. Monty and Popp would both start a traditional center next to Duncan and Davis because they liked establishing a very physical presence in the first few minutes of each half and personally I think to keep the wear and tear on Duncan and Davis down may even be a bigger reason, and then you wouldn't see those two guys together again. They both refer to Davis and Duncan as their centers and play both of them there for the majority of their minutes and almost exclusively after the beginning of each half. There's a reason you see guys like Splitter, Asik, Rasho, Robin Lopez, and others as the "starting center" and not these undersized or finesse but extremely athletic guys. They're targeting guys who can establish a physical presence to start games and keep the physical contact on Duncan and Davis down, but you play those guys during the rest of the game and to finish games out.

The best example of this strategy? Look at what happens in the playoffs when they can't worry about stuff like that. Duncan and Splitter play just 11 minutes together a night.

I would also say the most basic way of determining this is who they defend. Look in the playoffs. He wasn't defending Blake, he defended Deandre. Doesn't matter who was on the floor with him. Last season he didn't defend Ibaka, he defended Perkins. He didn't defend Aldridge, he defended Lopez. He didn't defend Dirk, he defended whoever Dallas was playing at C, Dalembert, Blair, etc.

Look at this regular season, when they played your Pistons he didn't defend Monroe, he defended Drummond. When they played my Pels, he defended Asik not AD, and the list goes on and on and on.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Though I also have to say that doesn't apply for AD that much since Ryan Anderson was hurt a good bit this season, but that's the thought process behind it.

 

[RipCity32]

Need more votes gentlemen. 

 

[dez]

TimmyD

 

[buzzy]

I'll also say, you brought up earlier how him being able to step out and take a mid range jumper makes him more of a power forward because of skill set. Something like 72% of his shots came within 10 ft of the rim. That's not exactly stepping out and taking those looks.

 
Duncan's usage last season was 62% within 8 feet of the rim, 22% from 8-16ft and 14% from 16-24ft.
 
Centers like DeAndre, Asik, Gobert, Dwight, Splitter, Drummond are in the 90's from 0-8ft.
 
PF's like Tristan Thompson, Kenneth Faried, Amir Johnson, JJ Hickson, Amare Stoudemire, Taj Gibson and David Lee all take a higher percentage of their shots from 0-8ft.
 
 
Not a bullet proof argument.

 

[Hurricane Season]

Where the hell do you guys get these numbers from?  I'd like to be smart like the rest of you assholes.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Duncan's usage last season was 62% within 8 feet of the rim, 22% from 8-16ft and 14% from 16-24ft.
 
Centers like DeAndre, Asik, Gobert, Dwight, Splitter, Drummond are in the 90's from 0-8ft.
 
PF's like Tristan Thompson, Kenneth Faried, Amir Johnson, JJ Hickson, Amare Stoudemire, Taj Gibson and David Lee all take a higher percentage of their shots from 0-8ft.
 
 
Not a bullet proof argument.

I don't think your argument for "he can step out so he has the skill set of a PF" is bulletproof at all lol

I'm just merely pointing out how flawed it is

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Players Tim Duncan has started next to since David Robinson retired:

2003-04:
Rasho Nesterovic (CENTER) - 68 games
==
100% of games started at PF

2004-05:
Rasho Nesterovic (CENTER) - 66 games
==
100% of games started at PF

2005-06:
Rasho Nesterovic/Nazr Mohammed (CENTER) - 79 games
Robert Horry (POWER FORWARD) - 1 game
==
98.75% of games started at PF

2006-07:
Fabricio Oberto/Francisco Elson (CENTER) - 72 games
Robert Horry (POWER FORWARD) - 8 games
==
90% of games started at PF

2007-08:
Fabricio Oberto (CENTER) - 62 games
Kurt Thomas/Robert Horry/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 16 games
==
79.49% of games started at PF

2008-09:
Fabricio Oberto (CENTER) - 11 games
Matt Bonner/Kurt Thomas/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 64 games
==
14.67% of games started at PF

2009-10:
DeJuan Blair/Theo Ratliff (CENTER) - 21 games
Antonio McDyess/Matt Bonner (POWER FORWARD) - 56 games
==
27.27% of games started at PF

2010-11:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 64 games
Antonio McDyess/Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 12 games
==
84.21% of games started at PF

2011-12:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 56 games
Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 2 games
==
96.55% of games started at PF

2012-13:
DeJuan Blair/Tiago Splitter (CENTER) - 60 games
Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 9 games
==
86.96% of games started at PF

2013-14:
Tiago Splitter/Other (CENTER) - 43 games
Boris Diaw/Matt Bonner/Other (POWER FORWARD) - 31 games
==
58.11% of games started at PF

2014-15:
Tiago Splitter/Other (CENTER) - 35 games
Boris Diaw/Matt Bonner/Aron Baynes/Other - 42 games
==
45.45% of games started at PF

AS A WHOLE, SINCE 2003, DUNCAN HAS STARTED 72.55% AT POWER FOWARD

Have a nice day.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Lazy argument, don't be so simple minded.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Well I guess it's not lazy in the sense that you took the time to do that, but it's heavily flawed. The importance of where a player starts a game is marginal to the importance to where he finishes games, and plays the majority of his minutes. Any coach would tell you that. Truthfully, like I mentioned to Sal, the only reason he's listed at PF is because he starts games there. Which is totally an argument I'd expect from your casual NBA fan, but not from you. It's the equivalent of saying one player is better than another because he scores more points per games, that's another casual fan argument.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

the mark of a good intelligent man is the ability to change his mind when presented with new information.

 

[buzzy]

I don't think your argument for "he can step out so he has the skill set of a PF" is bulletproof at all lol

I'm just merely pointing out how flawed it is

 
I just pointed out that your counter argument was even more flawed?

 

[jonathanlambert33]

You aren't bringing up any new info though, that's been known for years and was something brought up well before you brought it up. Everyone, their mother, and grand mother knows that Duncan starts at PF.

 

[buzzy]

I don't think you even read my previous posts.

 

[BwareDWare94]

Voted Ibaka again because fuck it.

 

[BwareDWare94]

Duncan is absolutely a Center on the defensive end. Offensively, traditional fours were doing what he's doing before it became only somewhat common among centers as the game has changed. 15 years ago he's a PF no question. His position has evolved, and as far as the spot he acts as is concerned, I'd lean Center, but he's always been known as a 4, and having him on the PF list makes the Center list more interesting because we don't have an easy go-to for any vote after Dwight, Gasol, and Cousins (in whichever order people prefer)

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Duncan is absolutely a Center on the defensive end. Offensively, traditional fours were doing what he's doing before it became only somewhat common among centers as the game has changed. 15 years ago he's a PF no question. His position has evolved, and as far as the spot he acts as is concerned, I'd lean Center, but he's always been known as a 4, and having him on the PF list makes the Center list more interesting because we don't have an easy go-to for any vote after Dwight, Gasol, and Cousins (in whichever order people prefer)

That's the funny part, most people (whether this is right or wrong) say "oh he defends so and so, that makes him a so and so!!" Duncan almost exclusively defends C's, but because you can log onto ESPN.com and it says "PF" people just assume he's a PF. Nobody wants to d the homework and research to make up their own minds, they want their minds made up for them.