4th Annual SI Player Rankings: #4 SG

[jonathanlambert33]

I know I said I'm not voting anymore, but why is Tyreke Evans being mentioned in the SG threads? If you're going to make Dragic a SG based on where he played most this year, you have to make Evans a SF for the same reason, right?

I'm not sure what the sites say but Tyreke played far more at PG and SG than he did SF last season. Monty realized pretty quickly that he didn't like him defending 3's or facing 3's offensively. Gotta give him credit for that though, because Tyreke improved when it happened.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Both BBref and 82 games say he played around 69-70% of his minutes at SF and he's listed as a Forward on both NBA.com and ESPN

 

[bosoxlover12]

 
For starters, I see a guy named Dirk Nowitzki that was FAR more instrumental in the Mavs winning 49 games.  Yes Ellis played well, but Dirk had a far bigger impact on that team.  Lets be perfectly honest here, if you replace Monta Ellis with Tyreke Evans on that team, as their second option offensively, how many less games do they win?  It's not a significant number.  Just to get that out the way.
 

Lets just get that out of the way, I'd say 10-12 games. Monta ran the offense, guarded the PGs, created shots more, etc. Replace Tyreke for Monta and Dallas misses the playoffs, not even in question.

 

[Mobruler]

Nola, how can you completely not reply to my post that includes analytics that I thought you would appreciate?

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Both BBref and 82 games say he played around 69-70% of his minutes at SF and he's listed as a Forward on both NBA.com and ESPN

I'd say that's not even close to being true. Like I said, Monty has been quoted as saying he realized fairly quickly that he did not like Tyreke playing at SF. As a result early in game substitutions would see Monty taking the starting PG or SG out in favor of Tyreke and leaving Al-Farouq Aminu in.
 
 

Lets just get that out of the way, I'd say 10-12 games. Monta ran the offense, guarded the PGs, created shots more, etc. Replace Tyreke for Monta and Dallas misses the playoffs, not even in question.

I could see missing the playoffs, but 10-12 games? That's not even realistic. I'm not going to argue over this anymore because it's clear to me your standing on this isn't gonna change, but I will say you either drastically overrate Monta Ellis or drastically underrate Tyreke Evans. Not sure which one, but there is not that big of a gap between the two.
 
 

Nola, how can you completely not reply to my post that includes analytics that I thought you would appreciate?

Link me.

 

[Mobruler]

It's on the last page, motherfucker.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

That's fair enough nola but I think if you're going to do this by positions you should put people at the position they're listed at on official sites.

 

[bosoxlover12]

I could see missing the playoffs, but 10-12 games? That's not even realistic. I'm not going to argue over this anymore because it's clear to me your standing on this isn't gonna change, but I will say you either drastically overrate Monta Ellis or drastically underrate Tyreke Evans. Not sure which one, but there is not that big of a gap between the two.
 

Its funny, because I could say that about every single thing you've said here, even when someone else proves you wrong
 
 
You talk about "watching the team play" and "not just focusing on stats". Monta basically plays PG for the Mavericks, and he runs the offense. Tyreke cannot do that anymore in his career. Switching Monta and Reke does a lot less for the Pelicans than for the Mavs. You can't actually believe a team thats ran by Calderon and Tyreke Evans will be able to lead a team to the playoffs. Its just not going to happen.
 
Think of it like switching Serge Ibaka and David Lee. Hurts the Thunder a lot more than the Warriors, even though they are fairly close in talent (Serge is better though, but imo the talent differences are comparable).

 

[jonathanlambert33]

That's fair enough nola but I think if you're going to do this by positions you should put people at the position they're listed at on official sites.

I could agree with that, problem is though I think different sites have some guys listed at different positions.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Its funny, because I could say that about every single thing you've said here, even when someone else proves you wrong
 
 
You talk about "watching the team play" and "not just focusing on stats". Monta basically plays PG for the Mavericks, and he runs the offense. Tyreke cannot do that anymore in his career. Switching Monta and Reke does a lot less for the Pelicans than for the Mavs. You can't actually believe a team thats ran by Calderon and Tyreke Evans will be able to lead a team to the playoffs. Its just not going to happen.
 
Think of it like switching Serge Ibaka and David Lee. Hurts the Thunder a lot more than the Warriors, even though they are fairly close in talent (Serge is better though, but imo the talent differences are comparable).

This is why it's so hard to debate with you. You consistently show signs that you are not informed about what you're debating.

"Monta basically plays PG and runs the offense. Tyreke can't do that anymore in his career."

Ok...do you know that Tyreke did infact initiate the offense a ton this season and will continue to do so moving forward, and when he does he's very good at it? To the point that people want to take the ball out of Holidays hands at times while he is on the court so that Tyreke can play lead guard and Holiday play off ball?

The ball-handling load was a pretty nice preview of what to expect in future years: Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday each took turns running the offense and had positive results. Jrue Holiday was much more effective this season with Anderson on the floor [54% TS with Anderson on floor, 46% with Anderson off floor], as his ability to occupy attention on the pick/pop made it a lot easier for Jrue to get where he wanted. Anderson didnt have an efficient night by any means, bu Jrue finished with a very efficient stat line and Im sure Andersons presence as a perimeter threat factored into that.

And I'd be remissed not to mention that the guy that can't control the offense had a better assist percentage while turning it over less last season.

Also, measuring it the way you did, what makes Monta go from the 10th best SG two seasons ago, all the way to 4th this season? I believe you actually voted him 3rd as well? Using your own method, Monta scored more, assisted more, turned the ball over less, rebounded more, and generated more steals two years ago than he did this past season. So what makes it different? The fact that he was on a better team and on a better team and had more ESPN highlights?

 

[CameronCrazy06]

I could agree with that, problem is though I think different sites have some guys listed at different positions.

Can it get more official than NBA.com in this circumstance haha, with the worldwide leader backing it up?

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Can it get more official than NBA.com in this circumstance haha, with the worldwide leader backing it up?

Where they have Reke at?

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Both BBref and 82 games say he played around 69-70% of his minutes at SF and he's listed as a Forward on both NBA.com and ESPN

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Yeah you see, that's why I'm hesitant. As a Pelicans fan I know Reke isn't a forward. They probably have AD as a center when I know he was a power forward. If it's like that for my team, how many more cases is there around the league? Duncan at PF is another.

I think the best course of action is just keep going off my head and if there is anything people disagree with then it can be changed if it needs to be.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Nah they have AD at PF.

 

[buzzy]

I like how were ranking Demar as a SF because of stats and Tyreke as a guard because nola said so.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

DeRozan is listed as a guard everywhere haha.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I like how were ranking Demar as a SF because of stats and Tyreke as a guard because nola said so.

Like I said, I go off my head. This is another example of why I don't go with nba.com or espn. To many instances when they are wrong. Terrence Ross started 62 games for the Raptors last season, and he did so at shooting guard. Common sense says DeMar DeRozan slid over to SF when this happened. As a result, DeRozan will be among the SF's. Didn't look at a single stat when I decided that.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Why couldn't Terrence Ross hypothetically be the SF? That's how he's listed

 

[CameronCrazy06]

But then this also goes down to the whole "where they play" vs. "what their true position is".
 
For instance, either LeBron James or Battier started most of Miami's games at PF, but neither is actually a PF?