2016 NBA Draft Prospects Thread

[Pugz]

DJT is rolling over in his grave

HES ON A MISSION

 

[bosoxlover12]

Comparing both of those players to Jimmer is extremely off base

Hield maybe, but it's not unreasonable at all for Jamal Murray. He's a shooter in the NBA, and that's probably it. He will be a below average defender in the league, as he is quite slow footed and doesn't position himself well at all to stop the drives. His wingspan is tiny as well, so he can't contest shots much either. He's a downgraded Eric Gordon for me -- idk why people think he should go as high as he is projected. His last three games in college: 19-48 from the field, 6-26 from 3. If he can't shoot the ball effectively, he's out of the league soon, which is why I likened him to Jimmer.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

He's way more of a dynamic scorer than Jimmer. Much quicker, better attacking the basket, better in between game, better ballhandler. It's a really lazy comparison

 

[SWISH-banned]

Jamal Murray is a guy that pretty much handled point guard in the FIBA games for Canada. He killed it in international play. He's got quite the resume for a guy his age and I think he's the x-factor type scorer that Eric Gordon looked like he would become. I think that's a fair comparison, and I think Murray might live up to what Gordon couldn't live up to in a draft position around the 5 spot.

 

[SWISH-banned]

Hield to me is a question mark. He was very good for the majority of last season but besides that all I see is a fairly short shooting guard in today's NBA that doesn't really see passing lanes and can disappear defensively. He's not a freak athlete, he's good, but that's not enough to stand out in a position that's filled with arguably the most explosive athletes on earth.
 
Kris Dunn is the guy that I think people are sort of looking past that could end up having a year with stats in the Lillard range. He's polished and has absolutely the complete package. He was close to the lead in steals throughout his college career and has proven he's a legit PG despite being a potent scorer inside or out. If he goes to Minnesota specifically I think he's in a perfect position to become a borderline star.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

1) You can't compare Hield and Murray to Jimmer.  Those two guys aren't one dimensional.  That's a bad and very lazy comparison.
 
2) Both would be sizable upgrades over a guy who played a hair over 300 minutes last season and shot 36% with a 7.7 PER.  Sizeable.

 

[bosoxlover12]

He's way more of a dynamic scorer than Jimmer. Much quicker, better attacking the basket, better in between game, better ballhandler. It's a really lazy comparison

Definitely a better ball handler (although doesn't show in game, but that's more to having to play with Ulis than anything) and a better finisher, but I'd disagree with the in-between game. While Jimmer had no mid-range game in the NBA, he was electric in that department at BYU. Very quick pull-up ability and he hit almost everything. And while he might be quicker than Jimmer, he's really not that quick at all, and will get burned by most PGs/SGs in the league. And again -- I was referencing Jimmer, not comparing him. Jimmer was a collegiate scorer who's offense didn't translate in the NBA and therefore didnt have a place in the league outside of being a low bench piece at best. If Murray can't score efficiently in the league, he has no other redeeming quality to make him last. That is what I was referencing. He's a less-explosive Eric Gordon, and not someone I'd take that early

 

[bosoxlover12]

@nola can you see murray having a spot in the league if he cannot shoot well? because I do not.
 
Hield is far more polished of a scorer than him, and is probably #2/3 on my board. But again, he's not great defensively, and in Brad Stevens' system, he usually favors those with defensive skill. The reason Hunter had such little play and such a low PER is because he was never put in the game because he was a defensive liability and couldn't hit the shots that he did in college. 
 
I'm just overly cautious. If Hield can hit his shots in the league, he's clearly the right pick at #3. But if there is any question to whether he'll be able to maintain his shooting ability (which many prospects in league history have been excellent college shooters but have failed in the league due to it being quicker, faster, and bigger), then you gotta pass on him in my opinion. You look at Marcus Smart -- decent college shooter, awful NBA shooter (so far). He would be almost unplayable if it weren't for his defensive abilities. It's not like Hield or Murray are exceptional slashers as well, where you know they'll be able to score no matter what. They are decent college attackers, and might not have the skill and quickness to do the same at the pro level, which severely negates their value.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Hield to me is a question mark. He was very good for the majority of last season but besides that all I see is a fairly short shooting guard in today's NBA that doesn't really see passing lanes and can disappear defensively. He's not a freak athlete, he's good, but that's not enough to stand out in a position that's filled with arguably the most explosive athletes on earth.
 
Kris Dunn is the guy that I think people are sort of looking past that could end up having a year with stats in the Lillard range. He's polished and has absolutely the complete package. He was close to the lead in steals throughout his college career and has proven he's a legit PG despite being a potent scorer inside or out. If he goes to Minnesota specifically I think he's in a perfect position to become a borderline star.

 
The problem is he has nowhere near the jump shot that Lillard has or even had when he was coming out of college. The mechanics are way off there too. But I completely agree that he could become a savage PG defensively in the NBA and he has great size for the position.
 
As far as Hield, he measured pretty well at the combine both for height and wingspan; if he hadn't, I think his stock would have slipped a little bit. But he has fine size for a 2 guard.

 

[bosoxlover12]

As far as Hield, he measured pretty well at the combine both for height and wingspan; if he hadn't, I think his stock would have slipped a little bit. But he has fine size for a 2 guard.

He's fine for sure as a 2 guard, but the problem for Boston is they need a 3, and I'm not sure he's long enough for that aspect. I doubt he could guard most SFs in the league

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Definitely a better ball handler (although doesn't show in game, but that's more to having to play with Ulis than anything) and a better finisher, but I'd disagree with the in-between game. While Jimmer had no mid-range game in the NBA, he was electric in that department at BYU. Very quick pull-up ability and he hit almost everything. And while he might be quicker than Jimmer, he's really not that quick at all, and will get burned by most PGs/SGs in the league. And again -- I was referencing Jimmer, not comparing him. Jimmer was a collegiate scorer who's offense didn't translate in the NBA and therefore didnt have a place in the league outside of being a low bench piece at best. If Murray can't score efficiently in the league, he has no other redeeming quality to make him last. That is what I was referencing. He's a less-explosive Eric Gordon, and not someone I'd take that early

 
How can you say he doesn't show it in game? Just because Ulis was the primary ball handler doesn't mean Murray didn't spend plenty of time with the ball in his hands.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB0vHLKuh6k
 
Skip to around 1:24 to see him carve Duke a couple times (granted Duke was not good at guarding the pick and roll early last year). You're going to tell me that's Jimmer Fredette? Murray is great with the ball in his hands. I'm not sure if he ever becomes a full-time one, but there's plenty of precedent set with a guy like Lillard who has made a similar transition (and even made it well enough for you to say he was CLEARLY a top 3 point guard this year).

 

[bosoxlover12]

Definitely a better ball handler (although doesn't show in game, but that's more to having to play with Ulis than anything) and a better finisher, but I'd disagree with the in-between game. While Jimmer had no mid-range game in the NBA, he was electric in that department at BYU. Very quick pull-up ability and he hit almost everything. And while he might be quicker than Jimmer, he's really not that quick at all, and will get burned by most PGs/SGs in the league. And again -- I was referencing Jimmer, not comparing him. Jimmer was a collegiate scorer who's offense didn't translate in the NBA and therefore didnt have a place in the league outside of being a low bench piece at best. If Murray can't score efficiently in the league, he has no other redeeming quality to make him last. That is what I was referencing. He's a less-explosive Eric Gordon, and not someone I'd take that early

 

[CameronCrazy06]

The point is that Murray's game is about much more than just his jumper, while Jimmer's is entirely about his jumper.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

@nola can you see murray having a spot in the league if he cannot shoot well? because I do not.
 
Hield is far more polished of a scorer than him, and is probably #2/3 on my board. But again, he's not great defensively, and in Brad Stevens' system, he usually favors those with defensive skill. The reason Hunter had such little play and such a low PER is because he was never put in the game because he was a defensive liability and couldn't hit the shots that he did in college. 
 
I'm just overly cautious. If Hield can hit his shots in the league, he's clearly the right pick at #3. But if there is any question to whether he'll be able to maintain his shooting ability (which many prospects in league history have been excellent college shooters but have failed in the league due to it being quicker, faster, and bigger), then you gotta pass on him in my opinion. You look at Marcus Smart -- decent college shooter, awful NBA shooter (so far). He would be almost unplayable if it weren't for his defensive abilities. It's not like Hield or Murray are exceptional slashers as well, where you know they'll be able to score no matter what. They are decent college attackers, and might not have the skill and quickness to do the same at the pro level, which severely negates their value.

 
I can't see Murray having any issues shooting the ball, he's fantastic at it and can do it in a number of different ways.  He's an excellent spot up shooter, he can step into threes in transition and hit them, he's great at moving off the ball to get open, he's absolutely lethal coming off screens (most efficient player in college basketball coming off screens) and can square up out to the three point line, he can knock down shots off the dribble out to the three point line, rhythm dribbles, step backs, he can do it all.
 
I think he's also a guy that you can trust to run the pick and roll and put the ball on the floor and get to the rim even if his shot isn't falling.  No he isn't DWade when it comes to his athletic ability, but he's got a good handle and is very crafty. He's also a very capable passer.  

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I also don't know how you can say Smart was a decent shooter in college.  0.79 points per shot on pullups and 0.88 points per shot on spot ups.  Both bad numbers.  I think he was a 29% shooter from three as well.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Oh yeah I didn't see bosox say that but smart couldn't shoot in college either

 

[elcheato]

Remember when Bill Simmons fist pumped live on espn's draft coverage when the Celtics took James Young. 

 

[bosoxlover12]

Seriously -- fuck both of you guys. Your missing my entire argument and nitpicking on small details that are hardly important to the central point to what I'm saying. Why the fuck you guys are harping on Marcus Smart's pull-up shooting or Jimmer's lack of finishing -- that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying at all.


AS I WILL SAY AGAIN, I don't trust a player who cannot play defense. Those guys are not good defenders, and if their shot isn't perfect they won't last in the league. A good defender with not great shooting is much better in the Celtics' system than a good shooter with not great defense. Simple as fucking that.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Seriously -- fuck both of you guys. Your missing my entire argument and nitpicking on small details that are hardly important to the central point to what I'm saying. Why the fuck you guys are harping on Marcus Smart's pull-up shooting or Jimmer's lack of finishing -- that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying at all.


AS I WILL SAY AGAIN, I don't trust a player who cannot play defense. Those guys are not good defenders, and if their shot isn't perfect they won't last in the league. A good defender with not great shooting is much better in the Celtics' system than a good shooter with not great defense. Simple as fucking that.

 
Real mature, especially with all the conversations we've been having as a staff regarding that kind of stuff.
 
Anyways, you say all this stuff about defense then you say "Jaylen is my guy."  Your argument is trash.  You've clearly never watched much of Jaylen and are going off what you read or hear.  Like I said yesterday, Jaylen has all the tools to be a good defender but right now he's not anywhere near the defender his physical tools suggest he should be.  He's mentally weak and is very poor in all of the mental aspects of the defensive side of the ball.  He lacks any real semblance of awareness, quite literally day dreams on the defensive side of the ball at times, he's slow at reading screens, slow at making his rotations, is left literally just standing with his feet in the sand at times.  Even on the ball he's incredibly inconsistent and unpolished.  His stance is poor, his shuffle is poor, and he leaves his feet to easily.
 
I'd even venture to say that Buddy will be a BETTER defender early in his NBA career.  You're going to spend much more time off the ball defensively and as a four year guy he's smart and aware.  He's going to be much more capable of picking up an NBA defensive scheme (coaching vs teaching), because of his basketball intelligence he's going to be more instinctful and won't be late on his rotations as often or simply fail to make them at all.  Buddy is also a guy that really competes on that side of the ball and because of that and his physicalness it makes up for some of his athletic deficiencies on and off the ball.
 
I'm sure CC will agree with me when I say this, but Buddy is a better defender than you seem to be aware of.  I'd say he was absolutely a better defender in college than Jaylen Brown and was probably slightly above average because of his intelligence, physical nature, length, etc.  He may not have "elite" tools, but he does have tools that could help him be an adequate defender in the NBA.  He's not a guy like Henry Ellenson who has no tools and doesn't even have a shot at being a slightly below average defender in the league.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

I definitely do think Hield is a better defender than the public is letting on. He's not lockdown by any means but he too has potential on that side of the ball and has the physical tools necessary to be above average on that end.