2015 NBA Regular Season Thread

[.infamous]

Luke Walton to coach lakers next year imo

 

[jonathanlambert33]

If chris paul wasnt always trying to throw himself to foul hunt, this wouldnt have happened
He pretty much threw himself into ad, they bumoed knees and he had to be carried off

Im sick of chris paul's shit

Paul did that same thing when he played here in New Orleans, I want to say I get it, but honestly he's played in 712 career games and I can only remember him actually getting that call a handful of times, and it's something he tries nightly. It's not dirty, but it's pointless and it's frustrating that AD went down because of it.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Remember when Nola said Giannis wouldn't be a star

That's one of the loosest uses of the word star I've ever seen.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

His process is fine. 
 
 
It started in 2013. He selected Nerlens Noel with the NO pick, and he's a very solid, above average player. Would probably start for at least 70% of teams in the league. Then drafted MCW, who really is not that special, but he flipped him for a pick last year.
 
He then drafted Embiid, who people were clamoring over. If he was healthy, he might have been better than Wiggins. Knowing how the next guys that were selected were Gordon, Exum, and Smart (all of which are not good shooters), it was the right move to select him. Hindsight is 20/20, obviously. He then took Saric, which was a fine pick knowing that he was going to be stashed, and there weren't that many good players left. Their other options were to keep Elfrid (which was stupid at the time since they still had MCW, plus they got their pick back by trading with Orlando), or draft Lavine. Not an awful move.
 
Then this year they took Jahlil. While he isn't a great fit next to Noel, you've always been one to say to just take the best available player, and not one that "fits the system the best". He was definitely the best available player, and he's going to be SO good offensively.
 
 
My biggest take on Hinkie's moves, is that it isn't over yet. His plan that he started with the Jrue Holiday/Nerlens Noel trade, isnt over yet. Barring something ridiculous, the Sixers will have 4 first round picks next year; two in the Top 5. If the Sixers get lucky, and get the #1 and #4 overall picks, their plan is probably super successful in the long run. A frontcourt trio of Ben Simmons, Jahlil Okafor, and Nerlens Noel is deadly. Add in a potential Brandon Ingram type of player, and you got some talent. 
 
It sucks that Embiid was a bust, but you cant blame Hinkie for that. And what other way is there to succeed in today's NBA? In the past decade. the only teams to win the NBA Finals that were FA built were Lebron's Heat, and I guess the 08 Celtics. Everyone else were led/carried by players drafted to them.
 
Warriors -- Curry
Spurs -- Duncan, Ginobili, Parker
Dallas -- Dirk
Miami 06 -- Wade
Lakers 09/10 -- Kobe
 
You can't win without star power, and FA isn't a good way to gain that talent. If you have to tank your way to get there, then so be it. Like, teams like Phoenix have tried to be good through trades and FA and it just doesnt work. The Thunder Method is the best way to get a possible title, and thats by getting great draft picks. If OKC kept Harden they would have won a title already, for sure. The Sixers can't win a title without tanking for superstars like Ben Simmons and co.

Nerlens Noel is not an above average player. He was solid for a rookie last year, but he wasn't an average and definitely wasn't an above average NBA player. Saying he'd start for 21 of the 30 teams in the league is a joke. Not to mention, he's been terrible this season, showing no signs of development from last season to this season. I'm glad people finally realize that MCW is a very "meh" player, took yall long enough.

Everyone knew Embiid was a massive health risk, I can't say anything against Hinkie for this, he took a chance and it appears to have failed, but he went for the homerun, I guess, in his eyes. Though taking a 7 footer who has always been a health risk was too risky, taking another guy would have been the smarter move. I do like Saric, but there's always been whispers that the guy may never come over. If he doesn't, taking him where he did was a massive blunder.

Saying Okafor was BPA is highly questionable as well. He's good offensively, but have you seen him defensively? He makes Enes Kanter look average, and we all know how horrible Kanter is defensively. Okafor does nothing well defensively, and it goes back to what I've said from the start, I have no idea how you survive in this league with a center who doesn't play a lick of defense. Philly actually has been playing solid defense with him on the bench, but when he's on the court they are the worst defensive team in the league by a large margin. He's going to get better, but I don't know if he'll ever even get to a passable defender.

Above all else, this team has built a losing mentality. A losing culture. They don't even have any veterans on that roster to help bring these young guys along, and that's a very poor way of developing talent.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

the thing with his process is, he still needs luck

Like if he landed wiggins and kat things would be different now and we wouldn't be asking this
He got the 3rd and fourth picks despite clearly being the worst team both years. Welp

1. Lets not act like if he lands either of those guys they are the players they are today. That's unlikely because Philly does not have the necessary tools to develop their young players.

2. They didn't get them, no "if" involved, so in the end has his approach worked? Numerous teams have tried the OKC approach, but have failed to do so. What's the end result? If Hinkie doesn't build this team into a winner, then luck or no luck, he wasn't successful.

 

[elcheato]

What tools does Minnesota have to develop players and when have they done actually achieved it aside from with Kevin Love? They've been irrelevant for over a decade. Wiggins and Towns would have been just fine in Philly.

And if they had gotten the #1 pick they would have started to operate differently and tried in free agency

 

[jonathanlambert33]

What tools does Minnesota have to develop players and when have they done actually achieved it aside from with Kevin Love? They've been irrelevant for over a decade. Wiggins and Towns would have been just fine in Philly.

And if they had gotten the #1 pick they would have started to operate differently and tried in free agency

Minnesota is MUCH better off in their player development than Philly is. I have no idea how this can even be disputed. For example, it's one of the least talked about points for whatever reason, but having guys in the locker room who can aid in the development of young players is one of the most important aspects of player development and in having an successful organization. You HAVE to have those guys, and Minnesota has an abundance of them. Kevin Garnett, Kevin Martin, Andre Miller, Nikola Pekovic, and Tayshaun Prince. Not to mention the player development staff in place in Minnesota, which is very good.

and I seriously doubt that second point.

 

[Pugz]

tayshaun is not the locker room guy people think. i get your point 100% and do agree, though.

 

[BwareDWare94]

Paul did that same thing when he played here in New Orleans, I want to say I get it, but honestly he's played in 712 career games and I can only remember him actually getting that call a handful of times, and it's something he tries nightly. It's not dirty, but it's pointless and it's frustrating that AD went down because of it.

 
Of all the people to say that play isn't dirty...you? Really?
 
It's not meant to be dirty, no, but it is not a basketball play, and in that sense it creates an unnecessary risk for the unexpecting player. Because of that, it is absolutely a dirty play.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

harden doesnt force contact like chris
Harden takes any tiny contact and flops. Chris does too, but throws himself imto guys. Harden doesnt do that

I've seen him do it

It's not a dirty play. Initiating contact in basketball happens all the time. If you actually ever played the game instead of just watching without understanding how the game works, you might get it

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Post can be directed at bware too

 

[BwareDWare94]

tayshaun is not the locker room guy people think. i get your point 100% and do agree, though.

 
Tayshaun Prince, missing wide open jump shots since he was conceived in the womb. At least Mitchell isn't starting him anymore.

 

[BwareDWare94]

I've seen him do it

It's not a dirty play. Initiating contact in basketball happens all the time. If you actually ever played the game instead of just watching without understanding how the game works, you might get it

 
I've played plenty of basketball in my life, even though I had more of a football build (I liked basketball much more). At any other level but the NBA they call what Chris does an offensive foul. It is not part of the game at all. Pump faking and forcing contact on a shot? Driving and initiating contact with whoever challenges the shot? Yes. Running side by side with somebody and lunging into them to pick up a cheap foul 50+ feet from the basket? No. 

Chris Paul is a dirty player. 

 

[elcheato]

Minnesota is MUCH better off in their player development than Philly is. I have no idea how this can even be disputed. For example, it's one of the least talked about points for whatever reason, but having guys in the locker room who can aid in the development of young players is one of the most important aspects of player development and in having an successful organization. You HAVE to have those guys, and Minnesota has an abundance of them. Kevin Garnett, Kevin Martin, Andre Miller, Nikola Pekovic, and Tayshaun Prince. Not to mention the player development staff in place in Minnesota, which is very good.

and I seriously doubt that second point.

I'm suppose to believe that Andrew Wiggins is reaching his potential because he has Tayshaun Prince and Andre Miller in the locker room? Are the Lakers a proper spot for developing because they have countless veterans on their team stealing minutes from young guys? Veterans can help but it's not the difference between reaching your peak and busting. The broader point was Minnesota had been going no where forever, suddenly got two future superstars at the #1 spot and now they're a breeding ground for "great development".

And you can disagree with the second point, but the point of what they're doing is bottoming out until they get a franchise altering player or acquire a plethora of lottery picks, which hasn't happened totally, but if it did they would start building around that guy. The Embiid pick set them back, there is no questioning that. I guess we will wait and see what happens with the lotto this year.

 

[Pugz]

oak got into that fight a few days ago and now its said someone pulled a gun on him

 

[BwareDWare94]

I'm suppose to believe that Andrew Wiggins is reaching his potential because he has Tayshaun Prince and Andre Miller in the locker room? Are the Lakers a proper spot for developing because they have countless veterans on their team stealing minutes from young guys? Veterans can help but it's not the difference between reaching your peak and busting. The broader point was Minnesota had been going no where forever, suddenly got two future superstars at the #1 spot and now they're a breeding ground for "great development".

And you can disagree with the second point, but the point of what they're doing is bottoming out until they get a franchise altering player or acquire a plethora of lottery picks, which hasn't happened totally, but if it did they would start building around that guy. The Embiid pick set them back, there is no questioning that. I guess we will wait and see what happens with the lotto this year.

 
Minnesota was a dump because McHale and Kahn made some seriously bad draft picks. I mean, imagine if they'd kept OJ Mayo and didn't ditch him for Kevin Love?
 
Jonny Flynn
Wesley Johnson
 
I mean, it just gets worse. AND they had traded for Chandler Parsons at one point but threw him back to Houston for cash. They didn't know talent when they had it with the exceptions of Love and Rubio, and one only plays on one end of the floor while the other already has an injury history.
 
In comes Flip Saunders.
 
Trades Trey Burke for Dieng and Muhammad (a steal for Minnesota). Muhammad is an established scorer who is improving his 3 point shot and his defense. Dieng is a good defender and has developed nicely as an offensive player. He has finished the last two games at C because he's playing so well right now.
 
Drafts Zach Lavine (looks good for a #13 pick right now). He's refining his game, has a more consistent jump shot, is a nice finisher at the rim, and is improving on defense. As soon as he cuts down the on the turnovers, he has the potential to become a star player.
 
Trades Kevin Love for essentially Andrew Wiggins, but also acquires Thaddeus Young in the trade (Young was later traded away). Wiggins has developed offensively much faster than expected, and is a great defender.
 
Trades for Adreian Payne (a nice pickup considering Payne's versatility). Payne is developing into a tough rebounder and good outside shooter. Only drawback right now is foul trouble. 
 
Drafts KAT. Dude has changed the defensive culture in Minnesota. There's no other way to put it, and his post game is only going to get better. Easily the best pick the Wolves could have made.
 
Acquires Tyus Jones (Pure potential here. He's undersized but he's smart and can shoot).
 
Signs Nemanja Bjelica (Great shooter, improving defender and rebounder--he is the 4 of the future for the Wolves).
 
All things considered, Minnesota's entire starting lineup in 3-4 years could come all because of Flip Saunders

Lavine
Wiggins
Muhammad
Bjelica
KAT
 
Minnesota was a black hole between Flip Saunders eras. He put them in place to succeed for a run of years before his death. 

 

[elcheato]

I'm not saying Minnesota is some waste land, I'm saying it wouldn't matter if they didn't get lucky, as is the case for almost any franchise that lands the #1 pick and a superstar with that pick.

And LaVine is never going to be a PG. The Wolves numbers with him at PG are dreadful. But he might carve a place for himself at SG

 

[BwareDWare94]

I'm not saying Minnesota is some waste land, I'm saying it wouldn't matter if they didn't get lucky, as is the case for almost any franchise that lands the #1 pick and a superstar with that pick.

And LaVine is never going to be a PG. The Wolves numbers with him at PG are dreadful. But he might carve a place for himself at SG

 
I've been watching them this season because the Rockets are so dreadful. He's not great at PG--you're right. His best stats come at the 2 WITH Rubio out there, but Rubio is never healthy for any considerable stretch of time. I think Minnesota will be forced to continue to play him at the 1 and it'd be a lie to say he isn't developing there. He's getting better at it every game.

I've said it before--he reminds me of Russell Westbrook. I don't think he can develop into a top 10 player or anything but he could definitely become a poor man's RW. 

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Minnesota was a dump because McHale and Kahn made some seriously bad draft picks. I mean, imagine if they'd kept OJ Mayo and didn't ditch him for Kevin Love?
 
Jonny Flynn
Wesley Johnson
 
I mean, it just gets worse. AND they had traded for Chandler Parsons at one point but threw him back to Houston for cash. They didn't know talent when they had it with the exceptions of Love and Rubio, and one only plays on one end of the floor while the other already has an injury history.
 
In comes Flip Saunders.
 
Trades Trey Burke for Dieng and Muhammad (a steal for Minnesota). Muhammad is an established scorer who is improving his 3 point shot and his defense. Dieng is a good defender and has developed nicely as an offensive player. He has finished the last two games at C because he's playing so well right now.
 
Drafts Zach Lavine (looks good for a #13 pick right now). He's refining his game, has a more consistent jump shot, is a nice finisher at the rim, and is improving on defense. As soon as he cuts down the on the turnovers, he has the potential to become a star player.
 
Trades Kevin Love for essentially Andrew Wiggins, but also acquires Thaddeus Young in the trade (Young was later traded away). Wiggins has developed offensively much faster than expected, and is a great defender.
 
Trades for Adreian Payne (a nice pickup considering Payne's versatility). Payne is developing into a tough rebounder and good outside shooter. Only drawback right now is foul trouble. 
 
Drafts KAT. Dude has changed the defensive culture in Minnesota. There's no other way to put it, and his post game is only going to get better. Easily the best pick the Wolves could have made.
 
Acquires Tyus Jones (Pure potential here. He's undersized but he's smart and can shoot).
 
Signs Nemanja Bjelica (Great shooter, improving defender and rebounder--he is the 4 of the future for the Wolves).
 
All things considered, Minnesota's entire starting lineup in 3-4 years could come all because of Flip Saunders
Lavine
Wiggins
Muhammad
Bjelica
KAT
 
Minnesota was a black hole between Flip Saunders eras. He put them in place to succeed for a run of years before his death.

I'm sure you said what needed to be said, but the point I was going to make was there is evidence in Minnesota doing a good job in developing young guys before Wiggins and Towns. Like I said before, this shouldn't even be a debate. Minnesota has the tools, from the coaches, the veterans that are around these guys mentoring them on a daily basis (Wiggins himself spoke on the difference KG made in the the few months between when he was traded and the end of last season, Towns has done the same since then), the actual player development staff, playing actual meaningful games and minutes, etc. These are things Philly has, but not nearly to the level it needs to be so they don't stunt their players growth.

 

[bosoxlover12]

 
Minnesota was a dump because McHale and Kahn made some seriously bad draft picks. I mean, imagine if they'd kept OJ Mayo and didn't ditch him for Kevin Love?
 
Jonny Flynn
Wesley Johnson
 
I mean, it just gets worse. AND they had traded for Chandler Parsons at one point but threw him back to Houston for cash. They didn't know talent when they had it with the exceptions of Love and Rubio, and one only plays on one end of the floor while the other already has an injury history.
 
In comes Flip Saunders.
 
Trades Trey Burke for Dieng and Muhammad (a steal for Minnesota). Muhammad is an established scorer who is improving his 3 point shot and his defense. Dieng is a good defender and has developed nicely as an offensive player. He has finished the last two games at C because he's playing so well right now.
 
Drafts Zach Lavine (looks good for a #13 pick right now). He's refining his game, has a more consistent jump shot, is a nice finisher at the rim, and is improving on defense. As soon as he cuts down the on the turnovers, he has the potential to become a star player.
 
Trades Kevin Love for essentially Andrew Wiggins, but also acquires Thaddeus Young in the trade (Young was later traded away). Wiggins has developed offensively much faster than expected, and is a great defender.
 
Trades for Adreian Payne (a nice pickup considering Payne's versatility). Payne is developing into a tough rebounder and good outside shooter. Only drawback right now is foul trouble. 
 
Drafts KAT. Dude has changed the defensive culture in Minnesota. There's no other way to put it, and his post game is only going to get better. Easily the best pick the Wolves could have made.
 
Acquires Tyus Jones (Pure potential here. He's undersized but he's smart and can shoot).
 
Signs Nemanja Bjelica (Great shooter, improving defender and rebounder--he is the 4 of the future for the Wolves).
 
All things considered, Minnesota's entire starting lineup in 3-4 years could come all because of Flip Saunders

Lavine
Wiggins
Muhammad
Bjelica
KAT
 
Minnesota was a black hole between Flip Saunders eras. He put them in place to succeed for a run of years before his death. 

Sure they look good now. But if LeBron stays in Miami, then the Cavs keep Wiggins because Love won't come/stay in Cleveland without the King. And then with the tanking by other teams like New York and Los Angeles, as well as Kevin Love being still really good, they don't end up with a Top 5 pick.
 
If Lebron doesn't go to Cleveland, the Wolves are in no better position than Philly is. They got lucky in getting Wiggins and Towns, similarly as unlucky Philly was to have the #3 overall pick bust due to injury.