2014 NBA Re-Draft Discussion Thread

[RipCity32]

Just chiming in, but Kyrie is not an elite scorer at all. 
 
And I really like Kyrie. But I wouldn't consider him an elite scoring whatsoever. 

 

[dcpwner]

Just chiming in, but Kyrie is not an elite scorer at all. 
 
And I really like Kyrie. But I wouldn't consider him an elite scoring whatsoever. 

IMO yes at least very close to elite especially at the PG position in terms of pure offensive talent I'd take Westbrook and possibly CP3 amd Steph over him. Which puts him borderline elite in my book.

 

[bosoxlover12]

Kyrie is a 9 offensively

 

[jonathanlambert33]

IMO yes at least very close to elite especially at the PG position in terms of pure offensive talent I'd take Westbrook and possibly CP3 amd Steph over him. Which puts him borderline elite in my book.

The way I look at it is Steph is elite. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Kyrie is not on Steph's level, I would hope we could all agree on that. If Steph is elite and Kyrie isn't in the same tier...what does that mean???

I'm also kind do curious what's the cut off for efficiency to be elite? Does putting the ball through the net make you elite and cancel out how efficiently you do it? If you look at those three guys, Westbrook had a TS% of 55%, Paul is at 58%, and Steph is at 61%. Kyrie is at 53%. Anyone care to guess what is considered average, above average, and elite?

I'll give a hint, one guy is average, one above average, and two elites.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I've got three guys I'm looking at with this pick and they are all great fits for what I want to build. I don't know which way to go.

 

[bosoxlover12]

See Nola, this is why your numbers argument almost never work. You can't judge a players efficiency without looking at their situations.

Chris Paul is playing out there, for the most part, with 3PT stars JJ Redick and Jamal Crawford, and he's got All Star big Blake Griffin in the post.

Steph Curry has 3PT stud Klay Thompson next to him, and former All Stars David Lee and Andre Iguodala too. Andrew Bogut is a fine offensive player as well.

Westbrook has KD and Ibaka, but that's it. Perk & Thabo were not main threats offensively.

So let's see who Kyrie played with: Dion Waiters, Tristian Thompson, Spencer Hawes, a bad Luol Deng, and sometimes Jarrett Jack. Kyrie had NOBODY to take pressure off of him. That will drop one's efficiency a lot.

Kyrie's TS% will be above 58% this next year, now that he has one, possibly two, great scorers along side him

 

[jonathanlambert33]

You can look at every players situation and come up with a hypothetical situation to where they better their play.  Even if it's by a little or by a lot.  I can do it for Westbrook, Paul, and Curry as well.  That argument is so off base, and if you are doing it for one guy you should do it for all guys.
 
And like I've mentioned in the past, if you will blame someone, people need to stop putting all the blame on Kyrie's teammates or coaches.  He's part of the problem.  I've had many posts detailing it.  I'm not going to go into the X's and  O's of why that is the case like I have in the past, but Kyrie is taking 22% of his shots from the long two area.  Now I'm sure using your logic, it's Kyrie's coaches and teammates that are asking him to take so many long twos, a shot that he is not good at and has never been good at, right?  Mike Brown, Byron Scott, and whoever else were all telling him "Kyrie, we want you to pull up from a couple feet inside the 3pt line and take a high volume of inefficient shots.  We know that is your least inefficient area, but it's what best for the team."
 
The thing you all are ignoring is the real elite scorers in the NBA know where to attack from.  They know their "sweet spots."  They will get where they are most effective from and attack from there.  Kyrie doesn't know that, atleast not yet.  He's all over the place.  Pulling up from anywhere his heart desires.  That's why his efficiency is just average, and those others guys are above average or elite.  It's his own shot selection.  His coaches and teammates aren't out there taking the shots for him.

 

[elcheato]

This debate will look funny after this year

 

[jonathanlambert33]

This debate will look funny after this year

 
It probably will, but the excuse making is unreal.

 

[jonathanlambert33]

I know who I want but I feel like people will underestimate this guy because he didn't play a full season.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Nola you don't like Kyrie, it's okay

 

[RipCity32]

IMO yes at least very close to elite especially at the PG position in terms of pure offensive talent I'd take Westbrook and possibly CP3 amd Steph over him. Which puts him borderline elite in my book.

Pure offensive talent he might be elite. But I don't think he has performed at an elite level yet. Doesn't mean that I don't think he will though. Cause obviously the talent is there. 

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Nola you don't like Kyrie, it's okay

 
It's not that I dislike him, it's just that he is so drastically overrated.  This very conversation shows that.
 
I mean your comment yesterday, "Waiters and Deng being worse with Kyrie on the court makes perfect sense."  Like what?  Good god.  The fact that every wing player Cleveland not only produces much better with Kyrie off the court but also sees their efficiently drastically increase makes perfect sense?  I mean come on, you have to be able to see that's a moronic argument.  If you can't, you clearly need to take the blue and white sunglasses off.

 

[RipCity32]

So who is taking Kobe? lol

 

[bosoxlover12]

I think Nola likes Kyrie as much as I like Anthony Davis

 

[bosoxlover12]

So who is taking Kobe? lol

if he falls to me, he's mine. I want kobe with KD

 

[CameronCrazy06]

It's not that I dislike him, it's just that he is so drastically overrated.  This very conversation shows that.
 
I mean your comment yesterday, "Waiters and Deng being worse with Kyrie on the court makes perfect sense."  Like what?  Good god.  The fact that every wing player Cleveland not only produces much better with Kyrie off the court but also sees their efficiently drastically increase makes perfect sense?  I mean come on, you have to be able to see that's a moronic argument.  If you can't, you clearly need to take the blue and white sunglasses off.

I think I said Waiters and Jack. But why doesn't that make sense? Kyrie, Waiters, and Jack are all three players who are best when they're creating their own offense. Kyrie is a good spot up shooter but he's also the most talented player on the team so they're not going to limit him to that. But Waiters comes off the bench for a reason. Their games don't mesh.

 

[Pugz]

So who is taking Kobe? lol

i would

 

[jonathanlambert33]

Kyrie shot 32% on spot up threes last season.

And I'll never understand how guys efficiency drastically improving when Kyrie goes to the bench makes sense.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

I'm not trying to insult here. I'm really not. Please don't take it that way. But you do understand that there's only one basketball on the court right? All three of those guys can't each have their own. And when Kyrie is on the court with Jack or with Waiters, those two are playing a role that they aren't accustomed to (or nearly as good at). Hence why the efficiency would drop.