2013-2014 NBA Season Thread

[bosoxlover12]

It's a point guard driven league. If you don't have an above average PG, you aren't going anywhere. (Exceptions: Miami & Indy, but they have their SGs and SFs with ball handling abilities)

Lin is below average. They won't win with him at point

 

[elcheato]

Since when does James Harden not have ball handling abilities? Chandler Parsons to a lesser extent as well.
 
And have you seen Jeremy Lin this year? Not below average at all.

 

[bosoxlover12]

And have you seen Jeremy Lin this year? Not below average at all.

Below average= not in the Top 15

Paul
Deron
Russy
Wall
Dame
Kyrie
Lawson
Jrue
Conley
Rondo
Rose
Kemba
Parker
Isaiah
Curry
Lowry


All are better than lin

 

[elcheato]

The only player on that list I'd take Lin over is Kemba, so I agree to an extent, but just because the position is better than usual, it doesn't mean he's a below average player.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

He's forgetting plenty of PG's. I'm not going to go through his list and try to figure it out but here's the PG's in the league better than Lin:

(no order)

1. Jeff Teague
2. Rajon Rondo (hurt)
3. Kemba Walker
4. Derrick Rose (hurt)
5. Deron Williams
6. Kyrie Irving
7. Jose Calderon
8. Ty Lawson
9. Brandon Jennings
10. Steph Curry
11. Patrick Beverly
12. George Hill
13. Chris Paul
14. Darren Collison
15. Mike Conley
16. Ricky Rubio
17. Jrue Holiday
18. Raymond Felton
19. Michael Carter-Williams
20. Eric Bledsoe
21. Goran Dragic
22. Damian Lillard
23. Isaiah Thomas
24. Tony Parker
25. Russell Westbrook (hurt)
26. Kyle Lowry
27. John Wall
28. Reggie Jackson

All better than Jeremy Lin. Might be more.

 

[elcheato]

You're off your rocker putting Beverly, Calderon, Felton, Hill, & Collison there.
 
And as I said, just because you play at a stacked position and aren't consider top 15, that doesn't make you below average.

 

[bosoxlover12]

Teams = 30
Average = 15th
Below Average = 16th or higher

 

[CameronCrazy06]

You're off your rocker putting Beverly, Calderon, Felton, Hill, & Collison there.
 
And as I said, just because you play at a stacked position and aren't consider top 15, that doesn't make you below average.

Well it makes you a below average starter. Not a below average player though. Idk how bosox relates the two but anyways:

I put Beverly on there because the Rockets play way better with Beverly on the court. I wouldn't say he's more talented though, but I figured I should put him on the list for that reason.

I guess you could consider the others toss-ups but I'd take them all over Lin. Raymond Felton is easy. Collison isn't a starter anymore and his role has changed a bit with the Clippers' second unit (Crawford handles the ball more than he does) but I'd still take Collison over Lin based on what I'd see from him as a starter. George Hill is another easy one. His role has also decreased a bit this year but I like his game. Neither are table-setters, but I'd rather have Hill as my PG if I were starting a team. Same with Calderon. His assists are down this year (again, new role playing alongside Monta).

And yes Lin's role is also a bit different this year. I just don't like his game. He's always been overrated by ESPN. Basketball Tebow.

 

[elcheato]

Strictly talking about who is a better player, I'm taking him over all those guys. He's not a true PG, and he's a combo guard, that is well established. He's an efficient scorer, who is most properly used in a 6th man role. The Rockets might play better with Beverely compared to Lin, but I would venture to say that has more to do with the fact that Beverely starts games with Harden and Howard, to where you'll see Lin play without Harden in the game so they have at least one creator offensively at guard, and keep the team afloat. That's what high scoring 6th men are for.
 
If you're looking for a true PG, then fine, I could see an argument for some of those guys, but just as a player, I'm taking Lin. Much better fit with the Rockets as well, because of how ball dominant Harden is. You aren't putting a PG next to him who sets up the majority of the teams offense. Lin is great in his 6th man role, but forced back into starting because of injury. Although Beverely is an awful player all around. They need an upgrade.
 
ESPN overplayed his Knick tenure, and he did play poorly last year, but he has been a key piece for the Rockets this year.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Even if you were right, that's still 23 PG's better than him unless you cut your list short on purpose.

 

[elcheato]

There might be that many better than him. Point still stands, don't see how you can classify him as straight forward as bosox is doing, especially considering he is a combo guard, and his role is a lot different than most starting PGs. The Rockets don't ask him to be the primary ball handler and set up team mates as much. He brings scoring spark, and does it efficiently.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

Oh well yeah, you're right there. Harden does a lot of ball-handling for that team and Lin being below average is not the main reason why they won't win it all. There's plenty of reasons they won't, though.

 

[Mexi]

they wouldn't be this bad if Kobe was healthy. That kinda makes a difference

kobe being healthy was never an option

His legs are absolutely shot

 

[CameronCrazy06]

To answer this point directly:

The Rockets might play better with Beverely compared to Lin, but I would venture to say that has more to do with the fact that Beverely starts games with Harden and Howard

Houston is +60 with their starting 5 in the game and -7 with the same lineup but Lin instead of Beverly in.

 

[Mexi]

Too bad deron died

Wouldve been nice for houston to acquire him

 

[elcheato]

The Rockets probably won't win it all, but it's not because of James Harden. He's the least of their problems. They need a shooting PG next to Harden, and more depth at PF/C. Need to get something out of Asik on the market.

 

[elcheato]

To answer this point directly:


Houston is +60 with their starting 5 in the game and -7 with the same lineup but Lin instead of Beverly in.

Which is why Lin needs to be moved back to his role as a 6th man scoring spark. He doesn't fit well next to Harden, but he plays a key role when they're fully healthy. They need someone to score when Harden isn't in the game, or when he's struggling.
 
It's also a small sample size.

 

[CameronCrazy06]

The Rockets probably won't win it all, but it's not because of James Harden. He's the least of their problems. They need a shooting PG next to Harden, and more depth at PF/C. Need to get something out of Asik on the market.

His defense is a problem.

 

[Mexi]

Lin is a perfect sixth man
Always felt that and he was proving me right

But like you said, beverly is a better starter for them but they need an upgrade

 

[Mexi]

His defense is a problem.

He more than makes up for it offensively though

Harden isnt the reason they will lose if they lose