.AiR_YeEzY @ LonesomeFX

[.snowy]

.AiR_YeEzY @ LonesomeFX

TOPIC: Which NBA team has the best bench?

.AiR_YeEzY has the right to post first.​

You will have a week to exchange posts. If you feel like you're argument is closed, then you can close it, that just means your opponent can continue to debate his point and argue against yours. No maximum or minimum number of points, all depends on how concise or elaborate you want to be.

Once each debater has closed their argument, or I close the debate, then the three judges will be assigning each debater a score out of 10. When scoring, the judges should assess how well the debater has proven their point, using valid and relevant discussion, statistical evidence where appropriate, rebuttal where applicable, and overall coherency.

Judges are allowed to deem the debate a tie, giving each debater the same score out of 10. I am using this scoring system, as opposed to simply voting, as a back up for a tie breaker in the standings.

 

[.s31t]

The deepest bench in the NBA is clearly the Utah Jazz even though many people will say the Los Angeles Lakers. Though the Jazz have struggled with health they were riding an eleven game win streak and find themselves sixth in the standings. Coming into this season the Jazz's benched ranked first in points per game (41.4), assists per game (11.6), rebounds per game (19.8), steals per game (5.6), and forth in blocks per game (2.2).

This season the Jazz have struggled staying health but a lot of bench players kept they're hopes alive. Ronnie Price began the season starting the season as the starting point guard while Deron Williams nursed an ankle injury. They also subbed veteran point guard Brevin Knight into that role and did a great job for them early on. Even Williams was impressed with how much production they gave the team.

Andrei Kirilenko is the teams sixth man who can come in and facilitate the game offensively and defensively. When he gets going Andrei begins to look like the former all-star we watched a few years ago. Paul Millsap is a young gun coming off the bench. He brings a lot of energy to the team. Kyle Korver helps the team with his sharp-shooting ability. He spreads the floor a lot like Jeff Hornacek did for Jerry Sloan when he had two stars Karl Malone and John Stockton. He busts open zones and spreads the floor. Plus early on this season rookie Kosta Kufous filled in for the injured Mehmet Okur in December. He showed early on that he could potentially be the starting center for this team.

When healthy the Utah Jazz is the deepest team in the league with names like Andrei Kirlienko, Paul Millsap, Ronny Price, Kyle Korver, Brevin Knight, CJ Miles, and Kosta Kufous coming off there bench to make a late push into the post-season.

 

[lonesomefx]

I figured you would have chosen Utah. The Jazz has a crisp and clean bench with Millsap, Kirlenko and Korver. I was gonna say Detroit, but then I thought about it, I had no choice but to choose the men in Green. The NBA Champions. The Boston Celtics. They have the best Bench Players in the NBA. You said Utah because Boston's bench is underrated. Not many people dig deep enough into a topic like this to understand where I come from with Boston. You may look at their bench and say, who on that bench is worth the time of day. Well let me break it down for you what makes this the team with players who are unfairly getting Bench Splinters.

Eddie House, Point Guard. Probably the most underrated Point Guard in the league today. In 143 Games over the past two seasons he's made 220 3-Point Shots. He's the type of guy you want to put in the game when your down in the closing seconds. He's the type of guy who can hit the three when ever he's told it's necessary. If I had to choose between Eddie House and Deron Williams for who to have playing Point Guard in a Pressure situation, I say "To hell with D-Will, Get in there Eddie." He's just the kind of guy that you know you can trust when you need to win. Maybe I should add that he got 52 Points off the bench in the Playoffs last year only playing 21 Games. Imagine this 30 year old man starting in Boston, point blank. He'd be a league leader in point totals. He is simply a great Asset to have on your bench. Now moving on.

Leon Powe, Power Forward. What do we have here? Another underrated player in Bean Town. None other then their Big Man. LP0. This dude is unstoppable. If you think you're taking a rebound with this dude in the hole, you must be high. This guy grabs rebounds like he found the ball just lying there on the ground. He's a defensive player in my eyes, so we have House as the offensive man, however... When you need someone to make the big defensive stop in a game, you wanna put Leon Powe into the game. Again, let's look at some statistics. He has 73 Blocks, 53 Steals, 433 Defensive Rebounds, 67 Assist and 1,212 Points over 3 Seasons and 185 Games. Ignore those offensive stats and what do we have? One of the best Defensive Bench Players ever. Question of the Day: Who Millsap? Point Blank, to think Millsap is gonna make it bigger then Powe, you don't understand the game. This guy knows how to play the game and he does so with heart. He wants to win. He's only in his 3rd NBA Season and already has a ring. That means that by his second NBA Season he was a champion. What more needs to be said about this man? He's gonna go down in the history books as one of the greatest benched big men. Now let's move on, sha'll we.

Stephon 'Starbury' Marbury, Shooting Guard. Why was he making so much money with out even playing for a millisecond in New York. Now look what we did. We lost him because we didn't want him on the court. He's only played 7 Games in Boston and only started 2. However he's already got 6 Rebounds, 23 Points, 3 Steals and 21 Assists. Now those aren't the most flashy stats ever, but I gotta admit, he's not just there doing nothing like he was on the Knicks. He's actually out there having a good time in Boston. He can finally get payed for PLAYING the sport he loves. He's not really the top of person good for defending an argument, but I'll make him work. If he's truly given a starting chance in Boston, he'll probably be a starter in the 20?? All-Star Game. However, with Ray Allen playing in front of him, don't expect any starting just yet. He's not quite the guy you would put as your Starting Shooting Guard when you have a perfectly good Ray Allen on your team. Sugar Ray is gonna be starting for a while longer. So I'd hate to say it, but Starbury is already used to bench splinters, so he should just take it easy, it'll be his turn in no time.

Mikki Moore, Power Forward/Center. This guy has only been in 8 Games for Boston. He didn't even start once. He's gonna be the last person in my post. He's a very skinny guy. He's 7'0 and 225 lbs. That's only 62 pounds heavier then me, but it's a foot and 2 inches taller then me. This guy could use more weight, but weight doesn't affect him at all. He knows how to play basketball, so he could weigh 100 lbs. No one would care because of his talents. He has 24 Rebounds, 30 Points, 6 Turnovers, 80% Free Throw Shooter whiles in Boston (Doesn't include his time in Sac-Town) Shooting 4-5 from the line. This guy makes contribution to the Boston team. He's not just sitting on the bench doing nothing. Andrei Kirlenko versus Mikki Moore, Mikki Moore wins. He may not be the type of guy with a long range shot, only 2-13 over his career from beyond the arc, but he can still make his way into the hole when necessary. He's a big guy, with the abilities that a big man should have. The reason big men are put in the hole is because that's where it'll be easiest for anyone to score. All you gotta do is jump and dunk the ball, maybe a sweet looking lay-up will get the job done, but point blank the hole is where a big man goes to work. That's just what Mikki Moore does in the hole, Going .547 in the hole for his career. That's all that needs to be said to prove my point.

 

[.s31t]

Eddie House has the worst handle in the league?
He doesn't play point when he plays for Boston...
He is more of a SG because he can't handle the rock worth <Censored>.

 

[lonesomefx]

Strong comeback right there. You knocked down one person in my 4-Man Wall. I still have 3 other men who are all better than Kirlenk-no, Mill-nap and Korver. Your wall can be easy to knock down. None of those men will be put in a game when Utah is down 3 in the closing seconds. Talk about House's handles, but guess what. He can still make the 3 Pointer when call upon. Try to tell me I'm wrong. Who of your three men, 9/10 will make that last second shot when the team needs it? Not a single one, I guess Korver would make it 2/10. However, He's not gonna stand a better chance then House. It's House's natural ability to make that shot when necessary. It'd be much easier if you kept things professional as well. I know what you're saying, I can write my things out the same way, to tell the truth 95% of the time, that's how I talk... but Professionalism would help.

 

[.s31t]

I figured you would have chosen Utah. The Jazz has a crisp and clean bench with Millsap, Kirlenko and Korver. I was gonna say Detroit, but then I thought about it, I had no choice but to choose the men in Green. The NBA Champions. The Boston Celtics. They have the best Bench Players in the NBA. You said Utah because Boston's bench is underrated. Not many people dig deep enough into a topic like this to understand where I come from with Boston. You may look at their bench and say, who on that bench is worth the time of day. Well let me break it down for you what makes this the team with players who are unfairly getting Bench Splinters.

Eddie House, Point Guard. Probably the most underrated Point Guard in the league today. In 143 Games over the past two seasons he's made 220 3-Point Shots. He's the type of guy you want to put in the game when your down in the closing seconds. He's the type of guy who can hit the three when ever he's told it's necessary. If I had to choose between Eddie House and Deron Williams for who to have playing Point Guard in a Pressure situation, I say "To hell with D-Will, Get in there Eddie." He's just the kind of guy that you know you can trust when you need to win. Maybe I should add that he got 52 Points off the bench in the Playoffs last year only playing 21 Games. Imagine this 30 year old man starting in Boston, point blank. He'd be a league leader in point totals. He is simply a great Asset to have on your bench. Now moving on.

Leon Powe, Power Forward. What do we have here? Another underrated player in Bean Town. None other then their Big Man. LP0. This dude is unstoppable. If you think you're taking a rebound with this dude in the hole, you must be high. This guy grabs rebounds like he found the ball just lying there on the ground. He's a defensive player in my eyes, so we have House as the offensive man, however... When you need someone to make the big defensive stop in a game, you wanna put Leon Powe into the game. Again, let's look at some statistics. He has 73 Blocks, 53 Steals, 433 Defensive Rebounds, 67 Assist and 1,212 Points over 3 Seasons and 185 Games. Ignore those offensive stats and what do we have? One of the best Defensive Bench Players ever. Question of the Day: Who Millsap? Point Blank, to think Millsap is gonna make it bigger then Powe, you don't understand the game. This guy knows how to play the game and he does so with heart. He wants to win. He's only in his 3rd NBA Season and already has a ring. That means that by his second NBA Season he was a champion. What more needs to be said about this man? He's gonna go down in the history books as one of the greatest benched big men. Now let's move on, sha'll we.

Stephon 'Starbury' Marbury, Shooting Guard. Why was he making so much money with out even playing for a millisecond in New York. Now look what we did. We lost him because we didn't want him on the court. He's only played 7 Games in Boston and only started 2. However he's already got 6 Rebounds, 23 Points, 3 Steals and 21 Assists. Now those aren't the most flashy stats ever, but I gotta admit, he's not just there doing nothing like he was on the Knicks. He's actually out there having a good time in Boston. He can finally get payed for PLAYING the sport he loves. He's not really the top of person good for defending an argument, but I'll make him work. If he's truly given a starting chance in Boston, he'll probably be a starter in the 20?? All-Star Game. However, with Ray Allen playing in front of him, don't expect any starting just yet. He's not quite the guy you would put as your Starting Shooting Guard when you have a perfectly good Ray Allen on your team. Sugar Ray is gonna be starting for a while longer. So I'd hate to say it, but Starbury is already used to bench splinters, so he should just take it easy, it'll be his turn in no time.

Mikki Moore, Power Forward/Center. This guy has only been in 8 Games for Boston. He didn't even start once. He's gonna be the last person in my post. He's a very skinny guy. He's 7'0 and 225 lbs. That's only 62 pounds heavier then me, but it's a foot and 2 inches taller then me. This guy could use more weight, but weight doesn't affect him at all. He knows how to play basketball, so he could weigh 100 lbs. No one would care because of his talents. He has 24 Rebounds, 30 Points, 6 Turnovers, 80% Free Throw Shooter whiles in Boston (Doesn't include his time in Sac-Town) Shooting 4-5 from the line. This guy makes contribution to the Boston team. He's not just sitting on the bench doing nothing. Andrei Kirlenko versus Mikki Moore, Mikki Moore wins. He may not be the type of guy with a long range shot, only 2-13 over his career from beyond the arc, but he can still make his way into the hole when necessary. He's a big guy, with the abilities that a big man should have. The reason big men are put in the hole is because that's where it'll be easiest for anyone to score. All you gotta do is jump and dunk the ball, maybe a sweet looking lay-up will get the job done, but point blank the hole is where a big man goes to work. That's just what Mikki Moore does in the hole, Going .547 in the hole for his career. That's all that needs to be said to prove my point.

Eddie House - No handle... Not a real PG... Plays SG though he is undersized... Ray Allen is the guy they end up giving the ball to in the clutch.

Leon Powe - Nice big man... Has had injury issue already through his career... He's really undersized for the PF position and easily couldn't bang with starters in the league... Very lazy against taller opponents... Not much lower body strength... He sets weak screens also...

Stephon Marbury - He might be good for now but when he begins to complain watch out... Steph has been out of ball and looked out of shape already... He was lucky to even get his two starts... Stephon still has a shaky jumper but easily can be a starter for a team next season like Miami...

Mikki Moore - Did you see this guy play in Sacramento? He can't even fill a role as a starter... He chokes often and is very inconsistent with his play... Ask GR about that... Mikki is another poor player to get paid because Jason Kidd made him look good... The other player? sits along the bench with him... BRIAN SCALABRINE!

 

[.s31t]

THE STATS:

Boston Celtics Bench:
Minutes: 74.2
Points: 27.3
Def. Rebounds: 8.5
Off. Rebounds: 3.8
Rebounds: 12.3
Assists: 4.2
Steals: 2.6
Blocks: 1.2
Turnovers: 4.3

FG%: 45.1
3PT%: 38.7
FT%: 73.3

Utah Jazz Bench:
Minutes: 85.8 (Due to injury problems early on)
Points: 30.7
Def. Rebounds: 10.4
Off. Rebounds: 3.9
Steals: 3.2
Blocks: 2.3
Turnovers: 5.1

FG%: 44.9
3PT%: 31.8
FT%: 76.0

Outside the Lakers the Jazz have the best bench and By the way the Lakers finished second in bench play last year.

 

[lonesomefx]

Andrei Kirlenko looks like the All-Star we were used to seeing? Let's compare him this season to last season. His 3-Point Percentage went down from .379 to .232. His Field Goal Percentage went down from .506 to .456. Assist Per Game went down from 4.0 to 2.8, Someone's becoming a bit of a ball hog, don't you think. All those stats went down, and it wasn't slight changes. Those were some major changes right there if you ask me. Now let's move on to Paul Millsap, if he's truly the one who brings that kind of energy to the team that you say he does. His Turnovers Per Game went up from 1.06 to 1.89. I don't know how you can bring energy to your team if you keep turning the ball over. I certainly wouldn't have the guts to talk about a player who doesn't have handles when I have Millsap on team. He's as close to having handles, as He is to being a starter with C-Booze out there. Ashton Korver, I mean Kyle Kutcher, I mean Kyle Korver, The Sharp Shooter? Let's go with his 2004-05 Season with Philadelphia vs. This season with Utah. 04-05 is where he started most of his games. So check it out. 3-Point Percentage went down from .405 to .378. Rebounds Per Game went down from 4.6 to 3.8. Steals Per Game went down from 1.3 to .6. Blocks Per Game stayed exactly the same. Points Per Game went down from 11.5 to 8.7. Look at how many of his stats are nowhere near the same as back in Philadelphia. He's not the same Korver and never will be unless he's but back in a Philadelphia Jersey. It's simple mathematics, he feels more comfortable in Philly and can't produce the same numbers as before in the mountains of Utah. Kosta Kofous starting Center potential? I'll give yout that. He puts up big man numbers, but as long as he's in Utah, you won't even remember he's in the NBA unless Mehmet get injured again.

 

[lonesomefx]

THE STATS:

Boston Celtics Bench:
Minutes: 74.2
Points: 27.3
Def. Rebounds: 8.5
Off. Rebounds: 3.8
Rebounds: 12.3
Assists: 4.2
Steals: 2.6
Blocks: 1.2
Turnovers: 4.3

FG%: 45.1
3PT%: 38.7
FT%: 73.3

Utah Jazz Bench:
Minutes: 85.8 (Due to injury problems early on)
Points: 30.7
Def. Rebounds: 10.4
Off. Rebounds: 3.9
Steals: 3.2
Blocks: 2.3
Turnovers: 5.1

FG%: 44.9
3PT%: 31.8
FT%: 76.0

Outside the Lakers the Jazz have the best bench and By the way the Lakers finished second in bench play last year.

Look at Highlights, mainly turnovers

 

[.s31t]

Look at Highlights, mainly turnovers

Well let's see who's been more productive since in February / March:

Boston:
Minutes: 68.6 / 68.1
Points: 24.3 / 23.0
Def. Rebounds: 8.3 / 9.0
Off. Rebounds: 3.9 / 2.6
Rebounds: 12.2 / 11.6
Assists: 3.2 / 5.9
Steals: 2.6 / 1.4
Blocks: 1.1 / .07
Turnovers:

FG%: .487% / .480%
3PT%: .417% / .394%
FT%: .641% / .875%



Utah:
Minutes: 78.1 / 87.9
Points: 27.1 / 34.9
Def. Rebounds: 10.8 / 9.9
Off. Rebounds: 3.0 / 5.4
Rebounds: 13.8 / 15.2
Assists: 7.6 / 6.6
Steals: 3.0 / 2.5
Blocks: 1.9 / 2.0
Turnovers: 4.1 / 5.2

FG%: .451% / .458%
3PT%: .312% / .395%
FT%: .772% / .747%

With Boston with a unreliable bench they're going to be exhausted before the end of the season... Utah has picked up the wheel

 

[lonesomefx]

Boston has been scoring more in March then Utah. Utah is only better on the perimeter by .001

 

[.s31t]

Boston has been scoring more in March then Utah. Utah is only better on the perimeter by .001

There stats have decreased... if you compared them all.

 

[lonesomefx]

Well why don't you pull up stats from last years Playoffs, Bench only... did Utah even make it last season?

 

[.s31t]

Well why don't you pull up stats from last years Playoffs, Bench only... did Utah even make it last season?

Did Boston have Marbury and Moore?
James Posey was the reason Boston had a nice bench...

If the C's had a good bench they could have players fill the void of missing KG...
But no one on that team can at all.

Kufos filled the roll of Okur in December I believe really well...
Sloan and Priced filled in nice for Williams when he was hurt...
Kirlenko fills in well at the SG/SF/PF
Though the ankle injury has slowed down Kirlenko of playing the SG.

 

[lonesomefx]

LP0 & Big Baby did just fine filling in for KG5...

 

[.s31t]

LP0 & Big Baby did just fine filling in for KG5...

And they lost to CHI?

 

[lonesomefx]

And they lost to CHI?

Think about what they won

 

[.s31t]

Think about what they won

Theyre terrible without KG.
They split one with Miami... Wade didn't play tonight either?
Even if Ray Allen didn't play they have adequate Guards on the bench to fill his role.

 

[lonesomefx]

You just said our Guards were bad, now they're good? You lost me already

 

[.s31t]

You just said our Guards were bad, now they're good? You lost me already

Eddie House can fill Rays role because hes a shooter and PP/Rondo can take the roc up.
They have horrid Guards but enough terrible guards that can fill in his minutes.

The only talent on that bench is Bill Walker.