Nets in three-way talks for Kidd

[Mexi]

now that i read the thread, Yanks makes really really nice points
eh, whoever gets Kidd will suffer in a year or two

 

[Pugz]

I think the Blazers would be fine..I mean yea they should make the playoffs but what happens if they don't...They get another Lottery pick and then they will be even more better next year.

 

[Yankees2772]

I think the Blazers would be fine..I mean yea they should make the playoffs but what happens if they don't...They get another Lottery pick and then they will be even more better next year.

What happens if they don't? The ultimate goal is to win... Why would they want another lottery pick if they can make the playoffs?

Making the playoffs IMO can change your team more than a low lottery pick... The Blazers won't get high enough to get a standout, and they are deep at most positions... The only way the draft can help them is at PG... They won't get Rose or Bayless, but Augustin is a great fit for them. With that said, this group with the confidence of making the playoffs would be better next year with their current team + a Darren Collison than this team let down by management tanking and the team choking and having DJ Augustin.

You be the judge. For me, it's an easy choice.

 

[Mexi]

so Portland gives Frye/Outlaw/Jack for Devin Harris?
i dont get it. 3 key components for 1 solid player?

i thout Pritchard was smart

 

[Yankees2772]

Yeah, that's why this won't go through... A starter, 6th man and 7th/8th man for a starting PG who won't help your team that much more this year than the man he's replacing in Jack in terms of leading the offense (which Harris can't do) and Outlaw's scoring.

 

[DJT]

XF - they'd get worse... Harris, Roy, Webster, Aldrige and what? Pryzbilla? Please. They're throwing away their playoff shots with this deal...

Yeah, that's why this won't go through... A starter, 6th man and 7th/8th man for a starting PG who won't help your team that much more this year than the man he's replacing in Jack in terms of leading the offense (which Harris can't do) and Outlaw's scoring.

Harris will help.....he will run the floor and him and Roy, Webster, Aldridge, and the rest can run the floor right along with him, and Harris is a decent enough shooter and passer, and plus he is very young and WILL get better. Harris is better than Jack in all aspects, and sure they are probably giving up a little too much, but Harris will fit in perfectly there.

 

[Yankees2772]

Harris won't help them this year... Brandon Roy brings up the ball just as often as Jarrett Jack, and he'd continue to do so with Harris. IDK how you consider Harris an upgrade for the Blazers, when you consider that they are losing their starting PG, 6th man and 8th man.

Travis Outlaw is their 3rd leading scorer and he plays the 5th most minutes on the team. He has a huge role in their offense and plays some great D, too.

They'd lose a lot of depth, which is right now one of their main strengths.

BTW, you say Harris will run the floor with Roy... Roy doesn't run the floor. Roy has said it many times that he doesn't like to run, he loves to slow down the game. Harris wouldn't be a good mix because Roy needs to be the man in charge, and Harris would play more of the kind of role that Jason Terry plays for the Mavs, and he isn't fit for that role. Harris needs the ball in his hands, and Roy does as well.

If the Blazers do this trade, they instantly fall out of the playoff hunt... And with such great depth, wtf are they going to do with their 1st round pick?

 

[DJT]

Harris won't help them this year... Brandon Roy brings up the ball just as often as Jarrett Jack, and he'd continue to do so with Harris. IDK how you consider Harris an upgrade for the Blazers, when you consider that they are losing their starting PG, 6th man and 8th man.

Travis Outlaw is their 3rd leading scorer and he plays the 5th most minutes on the team. He has a huge role in their offense and plays some great D, too.

They'd lose a lot of depth, which is right now one of their main strengths.

BTW, you say Harris will run the floor with Roy... Roy doesn't run the floor. Roy has said it many times that he doesn't like to run, he loves to slow down the game. Harris wouldn't be a good mix because Roy needs to be the man in charge, and Harris would play more of the kind of role that Jason Terry plays for the Mavs, and he isn't fit for that role. Harris needs the ball in his hands, and Roy does as well.

If the Blazers do this trade, they instantly fall out of the playoff hunt... And with such great depth, wtf are they going to do with their 1st round pick?

lol, you donn't know much about the Blazers huh? Jack doesn't even start. Blake has been starting. Plus Jack isn't even good. So its a huge upgrade at the PG spot. Losing Outlaw will hurt them, Frye, not so much, he hardly plays, and doesn't do much when he does play. But if Miles can get back, he will fill some of the void that Outlaw left.

BTW you say that Roy brings up the ball as much as Jack....well duh Jack isn't a good PG, he's more of a SG than anything....so of course Roy will bring it up.

I really want them to do this, so they/me can prove how wrong you are.

 

[MapleLeaf]

Good info

TrueHoop

So, thanks to ESPN's Chris Broussard on last night's Coast to Coast, the Bergen Record, Yahoo, and other outlets, we have a massive trade to discuss.

After spending some time with ESPN's salary cap people I can tell you that none of the published versions make perfect salary cap sense as is. But the general gist of all of these rumors is:

* Jason Kidd and minimum contract Nets to Dallas.
* Devin Harris and maybe something else to Portland.
* Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack, Channing Frye, and possibly a pick and/or another player to New Jersey.
* Devean George, Jerry Stackhouse, and some low salary Dallas players, and maybe a pick, to New Jersey.

I heard some of this talk this morning and said no way, doesn't sound realistic at all.

This is a massive gamble for Dallas, which has one of the best teams in the NBA right now. They'd be entering "win now or else" mode as Kidd aged into mediocrity.

For New Jersey, there would be some salaries to pay, and some roster spots to find, but a whole team's worth of talent to play around with while you try to figure out how to get someone else to pay Vince Carter so you can lure a big-time free agent.

But for Portland? For the team I follow most closely?

In the NBA, there are only a handful of young, affordable players. Of those, there are only a few who have shown signs they can really play. Of those, only a few are known to be solid citizens in the locker room and off the court. Of those, even fewer have been part of winning teams.

People almost never give those guys up. To give up three or four of them in one trade?

What's more Travis Outlaw, lately, has been something of a marvel. He has been almost perfect at both ends of the floor in crunch time. He has a reasonable contract. He is young. His vastly improved shot shows he works. And he plays one of the few positions on the floor that lets him contribute alongside Portland's keepers Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Greg Oden.

If you give up a player like that, at this early stage of his career, you'd think it would be for something really special.

Devin Harris is a nice player, don't get me wrong. But he doesn't knock my socks off like that.

So that was my first thought. This is just crazy talk. Happens all the time in the NBA.

Also, there are some problems with this trade. Play with the trade machine all you want -- it's not working, as described, under the rules. In addition to the basic problem of salaries not matching, Devin Harris has a "poison pill" contract, which means his salary in any trade is small to the outgoing team, but much bigger -- an average of his entire extension, to the incoming team. Devean George has one-year Bird rights, which means (now we're deep in the backwaters of the Collective Bargaining Agreement) that he could decline to be part of any trade, and the teams would have to honor that.

But as the day has progressed, evidence has been popping up that something like this might really have legs.

So I spent a chunk of the afternoon researching Devin Harris, trying to get in the mind of Portland's GM, Kevin Pritchard.

Pritchard, bless him, is not like most fans.

* For one thing, he has his own convictions about players, and that is king. He's not like us people, who think: well, gee, that Sergio Rodriguez sure had a nice game against Atlanta! He has his own metrics, and he believes in them to his core, and will make decisions accordingly.
* For another thing, he knows the current Blazers better than almost anyone. If there is some flaw that would prevent this or that player from thriving long-term in Portland, Pritchard would know. For instance, when Oden comes back next year and minutes and shots are harder to come by, who is going to become a problem and who is not? Or when people start getting big contracts the year after that, who might become the jealous pouter? These are the things he has to worry about.
* As satisfied as Portland fans might be with making the playoffs and seeing some fun basketball, Pritchard has to be all about winning a championship. Not just making it to the conference finals, but winning the whole darn thing. That takes a bunch of players peaking together in a special way, not just some guys who play well once in a while.

Portland clearly has to move some pieces -- I recently put them on a list of teams most likely to trade before the deadline. They are on a course to have 22 players soon, and of course, you are only allowed to carry 15.

Also, the point guard position is a question mark. Steve Blake has been something of a rock -- he's an excellent shooter, and this team can get shooters open -- but backups Jarrett Jack and Sergio Rodriguez are both sometimes on and sometimes off.

Synergy Sports has very detailed statistics about how different players shoot from all over the floor. Harris is rated as a "very good" catch-and-shoot scorer. He also gets a lot of points at the rim. His mid-range game is more average. He is among the league's best at catching the ball while diving to the rim, catching on the run, and scoring.

So, in essence, it sounds like he'd be a good guy to have catching passes from a double-teamed Brandon Roy.

He's long for his position, and super fast with or without the ball, with a little hint of Tony Parker in how he can create his own fast break by zipping through a crowd and finishing at the rim. He also has a reputation as a good defender, and has played in the NBA Finals. In terms of straight PER, Devin Harris is currently the ninth best point guard in the NBA. 82 Games has a bunch of statistics that show the Mavericks are far better when Harris is on the floor vs. when he is not.

Not a lot of 24-year-old point guards can say all that.

If you're Kevin Pritchard, getting a little tired of question marks at the point guard position as you envision your title-winning team, I could see getting a little excited about Devin Harris.

Pritchard is from the school that says you identify the players you want, and then you go get them.

Maybe, just maybe, Devin Harris is someone who lights up the spreadsheets that the Blazer scouting staff looks at. Maybe, in some fashion, he shows up as the perfect guy to play alongside the likes of Brandon Roy in the backcourt.

And maybe, just maybe that's worth shipping out a ton of young talent.

But if these rumors are real, and some version of this does take place -- Pritchard and his staff had better be right. Those young players Portland will give up will be around for a long time with the potential to make Portland look bad, and Harris has a contract that lasts into 2013.

^^^^

#6 on that

 

[NjNets15]

I would love this trade LOL so much coming to NJ but the Blazers are not giving up Jack Outlaw and Frye to get Devin Harris he isnt worth that much. If the Nets would want this trade to go down they would have to send like a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder toward the blazers aswell and see if the mavericks will send a pick to see if they are desperate enough for kidd.

 

[dez]

horrible trade proposal, the only team that wins is Dallas.

Portland gets yet another guard, who wont start but get limited PT

The Nets dont get anything but Outlaw and a pick...but they already have RJ at the 3

 

[.GR]

Another guard? Who else does Portland have. They would have Steve Blake, Brandon Roy, Sergio Rodriguez...

 

[dez]

Another guard? Who else does Portland have. They would have Steve Blake, Brandon Roy, Sergio Rodriguez...

Rudy Fernandez Taurean Green, Martell Webster. Thats 7 guards

 

[.GR]

Rudy Fernandez is over seas, Taureen Green was cut, and Martell Webster is the starting Small Forward... Go figure.

 

[dez]

Rudy Fernandez is over seas, Taureen Green was cut, and Martell Webster is the starting Small Forward... Go figure.

Fernandez is expected to be with the team next year.
Green wasnt cut....dont know where you got that one
Webster starts at SF but spends time at the two guard also

? :blink: ?

 

[DJT]

horrible trade proposal, the only team that wins is Dallas.

Portland gets yet another guard, who wont start but get limited PT

The Nets dont get anything but Outlaw and a pick...but they already have RJ at the 3

WOW! Dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. HARRIS WILL START!!!!! Whos gonna start over him???? Blake??? No. Rodriguez??? No. Webster???? Nope. Harris will start.

Update:

Obstacles in way of deal that sends Kidd back to Dallas
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
Updated: January 31, 2008, 10:25 AM ET
The growing feeling among league executives that the Dallas Mavericks are the most likely winners in the Jason Kidd trade sweepstakes is even stronger now.

Reason being: Within 24 hours of Kidd saying that it's time for him and the New Jersey Nets "all to move on" in separate directions, New Jersey and Dallas engaged in advanced trade discussions with Portland on a three-way deal that would land Kidd back with the team that drafted him in 1994.

Such a trade would involve at least a dozen players, cash sweeteners and future draft picks. In a breakdown of the most noteworthy principles, Portland would land Mavericks guard Devin Harris and possibly Mavs forward Brandon Bass, New Jersey would receive draft and financial considerations, Dallas' Jerry Stackhouse and a trio of young prospects from Portland (Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye and Jarrett Jack) while the Mavericks would score Kidd.

The talks were very active Tuesday, as reported Tuesday night on ESPN2's "NBA Coast to Coast" by ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard. But dialogue between the three clubs had cooled Wednesday to the point that sources close to the situation described them as "pretty much dead."

But another source insisted that the deal still has life and noted that the "pretty much" disclaimer leaves open the possibility that the dialogue can be reheated to Tuesday's levels, especially since the league's Feb. 21 trading deadline is still three weeks away. And what most observers considered to be one of the biggest obstacles for New Jersey and Dallas to either moving or acquiring Kidd -- finding the third team they needed to broaden the deal -- might be less of an impediment than anticipated if Portland could be recruited so quickly.

Some reluctance from the Blazers, sources said, is one of the factors that has stalled the talks. In addition to the short-term concerns about the ankle injury that has sidelined Harris, Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard told The Oregonian newspaper last week that "we're not making any trades" to break up a roster of youngsters that rebounded from Greg Oden's season-ending injury to rank as the biggest surprise team so far in a league filled with surprise teams. Sources say Portland has been shopping Jack on his own, but parting with three or four players is something else, with guard Sergio Rodriguez also potentially involved. Outlaw's development, furthermore, is one of the stories of the Blazers' season.

The Mavericks, meanwhile, might also have some hesitation, even knowing that Kidd has made it clear behind the scenes that a return to Dallas and the opportunity to play alongside Dirk Nowitzki is his preferred outcome, ahead of a move to Cleveland to play with Team USA teammate and close friend LeBron James.

Sources say Dallas is resigned to the fact that it won't be able to reacquire Kidd -- 1994-95's co-Rookie of the Year with Grant Hill as a Mav but who left town in acrimonious circumstances less than two seasons later -- without parting with Harris, who's a fan and Mark Cuban favorite as well as a 24-year-old point guard having by far his best season.

The initial scenarios discussed by the teams, however, also would require Dallas to part with either Bass or center DeSagana Diop. Both are critical role players in the Mavericks' system. Bass ranks as the most effective backup Nowitzki has ever had and Diop operates as one half of the center tandem with Erick Dampier that has been successful against San Antonio and Tim Duncan.

The Mavs, if the deal goes through, would be undertaking the aggressive renovation that many critics have been calling for since they followed up a 67-win regular season with a first-round exit to Golden State last season. Although there would obviously be some risk giving Harris' job to a quarterback who will be 35 in March, Dallas is undoubtedly seduced by the idea of enhancing the scoring abilities of Nowitzki and Josh Howard. Kidd's arrival would likewise address Dallas' team IQ and mental toughness issues after back-to-back epic collapses in the playoffs, first to Miami in the 2006 NBA Finals and then to Golden State.

Yet another potential snag here is that the Nets naturally hope to come out of a Kidd deal with at least one young star. The closest thing to a young star in the scenarios discussed so far -- Harris -- would be going to Portland.

But Outlaw is on the rise, too. Outlaw and Frye, furthermore, are athletic prospects who come with salary cap-friendly contracts in addition to the two future first-round draft picks New Jersey would also likely receive. It's believed that the Nets would immediately buy out Stackhouse and release him if the proposed deal wound up going through.

Yet it seems safe to expect that a Kidd deal involving these three teams will likely happen quickly or fade to all the way dead sooner rather than later. New Jersey has been dealing with speculation about Kidd's future dating to last February's trade deadline, when Kidd was nearly dealt to the Los Angeles Lakers. "But Dallas and Portland," said one source, "won't want this [trade speculation] to linger because then it starts affecting their teams."

Brandon Bass maybe going to Portland..hmmmm interesting.

 

[Yankees2772]

DJT, this isn't a sim league... There's something called team chemistry, and if they dealt 3 of their big role players for 1 guy who is nothing more than a 3rd option, then the Blazers would do much worse.

Even if Jack doesn't start, he plays over 25 minutes per game...

They don't need Miles back - team chemistry reasons. He is a cancer.

Jack contributes 9 points and 4 assists off the bench for them, while Harris gets like 14 points and 6 assists as a starter. The points can be made up by the loss of Outlaw who gets like 13 and Frye who scores in bunches. They lose their depth, which in the west, is a needed quality.

Anybody saying this trade does good for the Blazers this year obviously doesn't know basketball.

 

[DJT]

DJT, this isn't a sim league... There's something called team chemistry, and if they dealt 3 of their big role players for 1 guy who is nothing more than a 3rd option, then the Blazers would do much worse.

Even if Jack doesn't start, he plays over 25 minutes per game...

They don't need Miles back - team chemistry reasons. He is a cancer.

Jack contributes 9 points and 4 assists off the bench for them, while Harris gets like 14 points and 6 assists as a starter. The points can be made up by the loss of Outlaw who gets like 13 and Frye who scores in bunches. They lose their depth, which in the west, is a needed quality.

Anybody saying this trade does good for the Blazers this year obviously doesn't know basketball.

3 BIG ROLE PLAYERS!?!!?!?!?!? F that. The only role player is Outlaw, sure the other 2 have potential, but lets face the facts, they are usually ice cold rather than red hot..or even warm.

And how many points does Jack get in those minutes????? Like 4 on average.

Chemisty lol, what were people saying about the Celtics?? Some players just go well together, even listen to the experts, they all say Harris will fit right in.

And they are also going to get either Diop or Bass, and Bass > Frye as of right now. Bass is a beast down low, rebounding or scoring with contact.

Anyone saying that Harris wouldn't start on this team, or help them, doesn't know squat about basketball.

 

[Yankees2772]

Harris would help them, but keeping those 3 would help more...

Jack doesn't get 4 points, I said he gets 9... Outlaw gets 12 or 13. Frye gets 7 points and 5 rebounds in 18 minutes.

 

[.GR]

Meh, IDK. I think Pritchard would want more if he's giving up Outlaw. He's still young...