Yanks talking to Andruw [Signed]

[Elite]

jeter isnt good anymore

Lowrie>Jeter

And no way is Jeter and Rivera still in their primes

David Ortiz had a really productive year last year. However, he hasnt been in prime since 2008. We can accept it, unlike somebody...

Jeter isn't good anymore? lol

David Ortiz had a pretty good season this year, but he was shitty the two before that and was nowhere near what he was doing in his steroid-fueled prime.

Like I've said, prime has no age limit. It's all about the numbers. When you're still putting up numbers that were similar to what you were doing at these age limits you like to put on someone being in their prime, then how are they not in their prime? Outside of 2007, Mariano has had a lower ERA than his career numbers every year since 2003. How is he not still in his prime. Mo was like 33 in 2003 and that's when he started to play his best.

There are special athletes who can still perform past this supposed prime age limit. Jeter is clearly farther from his prime than Mariano after coming off an off-year, but would anyone be surprised if he put up his career averages this season? Especially since he hit .330 something in 2009.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

I'm still laughing at how stupid of a post it was to say Lowrie>Jeter.

I would necessarily call Ortiz's previous two years shitty, he still put up decent numbers, nowhere near his 2003-2007 era though.

 

[Elite]

What's funny is how the majority of Jed Lowrie's minor league seasons are worse than Jeter's worst season in the big leagues

 

[The Edge]

And even if he posts the same numbers as last season, he's still one of the better shortstops in the league and the best thing available.

According to Baseball metrics and not reputation and simplistic stats that most minds tend to want to comprehend.

Jeter has been a top 5 SS about 4-5 of his 15-16 years in the big leagues. Those stats also say he has never been that good a defender. Basicaly Jeter has been a "better" shortstop in the league for 25% of his career.

 

[The Edge]

to get on topic though. I think Andruw would be a solid pick up for the Yankees but I wish a lesser team would give him a shot to be an everyday Center Fielder. if he could somehow pull out half of what he was in CF on a 2 year deal he will pass Brooks Robinson to be the highest valued defensive player in the history of the game(already being a wide margin above anyone in the OF).

 

[Elite]

According to Baseball metrics and not reputation and simplistic stats that most minds tend to want to comprehend.

Jeter has been a top 5 SS about 4-5 of his 15-16 years in the big leagues. Those stats also say he has never been that good a defender. Basicaly Jeter has been a "better" shortstop in the league for 25% of his career.

:lol:

 

[The Edge]

:lol:

This guy is consistently the worst defensive Everyday Shortstop in the majors that keeps a job. Posting at times near 2x as bad a defensive number as the second worst everyday SS. SS is more important to have a good glove with great range and a good arm than a guy that can give you a .375 wOBA. Its not like Adam Dunn where you can hide him away at first base to hide that defense. Its laughable that he somehow has 4 gold gloves when defensively since 1975 he has the worst defensive value by a shortstop by at least 40 Points.

edit: just ran the search back to 1871. Derek Jeter's Fangraph -113 Defensive value is 16 points worse than any other shortstop and 40 points behind the 3rd worst defensive shortstop.

and on all positions only Adam Dunn, Bobby Bonilla, Bernie Williams, Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield are less valuable defensively than Derek Jeter in the history of the game

 

[Elite]

This guy is consistently the worst defensive Everyday Shortstop in the majors that keeps a job. Posting at times near 2x as bad a defensive number as the second worst everyday SS. SS is more important to have a good glove with great range and a good arm than a guy that can give you a .375 wOBA. Its not like Adam Dunn where you can hide him away at first base to hide that defense. Its laughable that he somehow has 4 gold gloves when defensively since 1975 he has the worst defensive value by a shortstop by at least 40 Points.

edit: just ran the search back to 1871. Derek Jeter's Fangraph -113 Defensive value is 16 points worse than any other shortstop and 40 points behind the 3rd worst defensive shortstop.

and on all positions only Adam Dunn, Bobby Bonilla, Bernie Williams, Manny Ramirez and Gary Sheffield are less valuable defensively than Derek Jeter in the history of the game

Don't really care about the fancy stats. I can tell you he is nowhere near this horrible defender you claim him to be by simply watching him play. He doesn't have the best range, but he has an above average arm and he's incredibly efficient on the balls that he gets to.

 

[Pugz]

Prime has no age limit.

yes it does dude. athletes bodies break down. you can get any better if your body is lasting. when a person is in their prime their body is at its peak.


explain to me how an athlete in his mid 30's can still be in their prime while its clear their body is slowing down and falling apart.


youre the first person ive ever read/heard have a hard time accepting that. shit.

 

[Elite]

yes it does dude. athletes bodies break down. you can get any better if your body is lasting. when a person is in their prime their body is at its peak.


explain to me how an athlete in his mid 30's can still be in their prime while its clear their body is slowing down and falling apart.


youre the first person ive ever read/heard have a hard time accepting that. shit.

And I'm telling you that are certain athletes out there that their primes can be extended well past the norm because of how good they are.

 

[Pugz]

im not denying that. but i think youre just not understanding the whole concept of "prime". its not how good they are, its just how well kept their bodies are...


i also notice that you only say this for yankee players..

 

[Elite]

im not denying that. but i think youre just not understanding the whole concept of "prime". its not how good they are, its just how well kept their bodies are...


i also notice that you only say this for yankee players..

Prime is performance, not well someones body is, you have it mixed sir. You're talking physical prime, I'm talking their prime as a player.

I'm only saying this for Yankee players because we were talking about Yankees. There are several athletes on other teams in every sport who perform just as good as they did at these magic age numbers that you deem their prime

 

[Pugz]

lolololol, you cant have good performance if your damn body is breaking down. you cant be a good player if your body isnt holding up. as you get older and more of these "little" injuries come along its because the toll your body took over the years. aka, moving out of your prime.

 

[Elite]

lolololol, you cant have good performance if your damn body is breaking down. you cant be a good player if your body isnt holding up. as you get older and more of these "little" injuries come along its because the toll your body took over the years. aka, moving out of your prime.

Numerous professional athletes beg to differ with that entire statement.

 

[Pugz]

but more tend to agree..

 

[Elite]

In case you haven't noticed, I was only talking about two, both of which are clearly exceptions to the rules.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Are you saying Jeter is an exception, because clearly he isn't. He is going downhill, once you go down hill, you there for are ending your prime. I'm sorry but I completely agree with Pugz, you can't be in your prime at 40. It is obviously going to be difficult for you to produce well.

 

[Elite]

If he has another bad season this year, then yes, I will say he is no longer in his prime. One season is an anomaly, two is trend.

 

[The Edge]

Don't really care about the fancy stats. I can tell you he is nowhere near this horrible defender you claim him to be by simply watching him play. He doesn't have the best range, but he has an above average arm and he's incredibly efficient on the balls that he gets to.

UZR doesn't lie my friend. THat is all about this Above average range you say he has and the stat says he's the worst shortstop in the history of the game.

you may not care about its a FACT.

Jeter has a top 8-12 bat for short stops all time but it doesnt' begin to make up for his shortcomings on the field. SS is a defense first position and if your going to be as bad as Jeter is in the field you better be able to put up some A-Rod type numbers.

Eye tests are usually the worst possible thing you can go by. You see what you want to see because its the homer in you.

 

[Elite]

UZR doesn't lie my friend. THat is all about this Above average range you say he has and the stat says he's the worst shortstop in the history of the game.

you may not care about its a FACT.

Jeter has a top 8-12 bat for short stops all time but it doesnt' begin to make up for his shortcomings on the field. SS is a defense first position and if your going to be as bad as Jeter is in the field you better be able to put up some A-Rod type numbers.

Eye tests are usually the worst possible thing you can go by. You see what you want to see because its the homer in you.

You just told me that UZR, one of the most flawed stats out there, is to be taken as fact.